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AMD to unveil Zen 4 CPUs at CES 2022

Soldato
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I didn't know about this, ok, lets see how that works out :)

It is a thing, Intel has said RPL has a new digital voltage controller inside it that allows them to run lower voltages at a given clock speed vs alder lake. I don't think Intel gave any numbers, like they didn't say "RPL will use 20% less power" they just said RPL can run at a lower voltage which implies less power draw but if Intel boosts clock speed up by 200-300mhz like is rumoured then lower voltage benefit can be negated
 
Soldato
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Am guessing it's considerable more that just that as I cant see a voltage reg making that much of an impact.
From what I skimmed over, it's a secondary system that runs parallel with the regulators on the board and fine tunes power requests so the various CPU states don't burn juice unnecessarily, hence bringing overall draw down.

However, to echo Grim above, that fine tuning of power draw brings thermal output down allowing boosts to go higher and last longer, therefore drawing more power and dumping more heat.

So I guess we'll see how it pans out, but it sounds more like Intel doing some fancy shenanigans to up boost clocks further, rather than getting their insane power and thermals under control.
 
Soldato
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Is there Any reason to think we will get Meteor Lake desktop CPUs in the 1st half of 2023? It doesn't seem likely, considering that Raptor Lake is due for release probably around September (I think probably a few weeks before Zen 4).

I think Meteor Lake mobile CPUs will probably be going into mass production this year though, ready for a release in the 1st half of 2023. Maybe Intel won't bother with Raptor Lake mobile CPUs?
 
Soldato
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Is there Any reason to think we will get Meteor Lake desktop CPUs in the 1st half of 2023? It doesn't seem likely, considering that Raptor Lake is due for release probably around September (I think probably a few weeks before Zen 4).

I think Meteor Lake mobile CPUs will probably be going into mass production this year though, ready for a release in the 1st half of 2023. Maybe Intel won't bother with Raptor Lake mobile CPUs?


What's the normal timeframe from power on to launch? Intel has reached power on for meteor lake a week or two ago - meaning they've manufactured the first engineering samples and got it booting into windows
 
Soldato
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What's the normal timeframe from power on to launch? Intel has reached power on for meteor lake a week or two ago - meaning they've manufactured the first engineering samples and got it booting into windows
Mobile only engineering samples so far, that we know of.

Could be that because it's a new fab. process, that Intel thinks they can only get good yields on the E-Cores at the moment, combined with 2 P-Cores.

It's notable that Intel hasn't confirmed if Meteor Lake will even be the desktop series, yet.
 
Soldato
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So this surprised me:


Just 18% desktop PC market share for AMD, in the 1st quarter of 2022.

They're reaching more people on laptops and mobile devices and 2 in 1 PCs by the looks of things.

There's certainty still quite a way for AMD to go, if Zen 4 doesn't do it, what would?

Decades of competition and ample supply. OEMs need to shift 10s of thousands of the same spec machines and need reassurance that the supplier can come up with the goods. That's how AMD got started, a required second source to Intel
 
Caporegime
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So this surprised me:


Just 18% desktop PC market share for AMD, in the 1st quarter of 2022.

They're reaching more people on laptops and mobile devices and 2 in 1 PCs by the looks of things.

There's certainty still quite a way for AMD to go, if Zen 4 doesn't do it, what would?

Look at it this way.

AMD's 2017 revenue was $5.253 Billion
2021 revenue was $16.4 Billion

Q1 2022 was $5.9 Billion, they earned $550 Million more in this quarter alone than they earned in the whole of 2017.

AMD revenue for 2022 is predicted to be $26.3 Billion.

So, AMD only has 18% of Desktop market share? ok, so they still have a lot more marketshare and with it revenue share to take.

Intel's 2021 revenue was $79 Billion.
Q1 2021 is $18 Billion, that is down 7% on Q1 2020, client revenue is actually down 13%
Full year 2022 is predicted to be $76 Billion.

AMD gain $9.9 Billion this year, Intel lose $3 Billion.

One more thing, in the last few years AMD's revenue predictions have always been an under estimation, while Intel's have been an over estimation, its been like this for 12 consecutive quarters. Its because of a mind-share bias, those who make these estimations expect Intel to do better, because shiny Intel, and AMD to do worse, because muddy AMD, despite being wrong 12 times in a row they just can't seem to shake that bias.
 
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Soldato
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3,058
So this surprised me:


Just 18% desktop PC market share for AMD, in the 1st quarter of 2022.

They're reaching more people on laptops and mobile devices and 2 in 1 PCs by the looks of things.

There's certainty still quite a way for AMD to go, if Zen 4 doesn't do it, what would?
Most desktops (and laptop) are low-end low-margin office computers. The % of desktop market share isn't a relevant metric. AMD has been supply constrained for the better part of two years and they focused their efforts on high-margin higher-end desktop and server SKUs. This is why their revenues and profits are up significantly more so than their market share.
 
Caporegime
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There is another more important question in all of this.

How can Intel seemingly not lose market share while at the same time lose revenue and margins, Intel margins have gone from 64% in 2017 to 50% now in 2021.

AMD are not gaining market share, well they are, a tiny bit and Intel are losing a tiny bit but this doesn't add up to what is going on.

Intel's MO when it comes to AMD is deny them sales by bribing OEM's not to use AMD products at all, the most well known example of this is when Intel was sued for paying Dell $8 Billion annually not to use AMD CPU and on top of that gave their CPU's away practically free, in this case AMD offered their CPU's to Dell for free, Dell told them if the accepted that offer they would lose money, that's when AMD looked deeper in to what was going on and took Intel to court.

There are more ways of doing this that are legally more grey, you buy our CPU's and at a later date you get a cashback bonus.

I think Intel are still bribing the existing market, they do this to try and stop AMD from growing but clearly this is not working, not this time, AMD are growing rapidly and rapidly becoming a leviathan of a company themselves, $5.2 Billion to $16.4 Billion in 4 years and $26.3 Billion in 5.
What AMD are doing is bypassing the existing market, for the most part, while the new and growing segment is almost exclusively AMD, Intel are bribing pensioners to stick with them while AMD are going after millennials.
What Intel are doing is unsustainable long term, but they also don't have the products to compete with AMD, the products that millennials want, Intel are selling Chevrolet Corvair's, AMD are selling Tesla's. The future is AMD, Intel are the past.
 
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Soldato
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Most desktops (and laptop) are low-end low-margin office computers. The % of desktop market share isn't a relevant metric. AMD has been supply constrained for the better part of two years and they focused their efforts on high-margin higher-end desktop and server SKUs. This is why their revenues and profits are up significantly more so than their market share.

It's relevant in terms of the the thing AMD might decide to prioritize. I'm pleased to see that they are prioritizing Zen 4 for desktops, they must feel confident that it will help them to gain an advantage in 2022.
 
Associate
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AMD purchase of Xilinx and Pensando is the best evidence how much they have grown, looking at pure statistic of market share is irellevant, and Intel have many legacy systems.
 
Soldato
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It's relevant in terms of the the thing AMD might decide to prioritize. I'm pleased to see that they are prioritizing Zen 4 for desktops, they must feel confident that it will help them to gain an advantage in 2022.
It's the result of what they've already prioritised.

There is another more important question in all of this.

How can Intel seemingly not lose market share while at the same time lose revenue and margins, Intel margins have gone from 64% in 2017 to 50% now in 2021.

AMD are not gaining market share, well they are, a tiny bit and Intel are losing a tiny bit but this doesn't add up to what is going on.

Intel's MO when it comes to AMD is deny them sales by bribing OEM's not to use AMD products at all, the most well known example of this is when Intel was sued for paying Dell $8 Billion annually not to use AMD CPU and on top of that gave their CPU's away practically free, in this case AMD offered their CPU's to Dell for free, Dell told them if the accepted that offer they would lose money, that's when AMD looked deeper in to what was going on and took Intel to court.

There are more ways of doing this that are legally more grey, you buy our CPU's and at a later date you get a cashback bonus.

I think Intel are still bribing the existing market, they do this to try and stop AMD from growing but clearly this is not working, not this time, AMD are growing rapidly and rapidly becoming a leviathan of a company themselves, $5.2 Billion to $16.4 Billion in 4 years and $26.3 Billion in 5.
What AMD are doing is bypassing the existing market, for the most part, while the new and growing segment is almost exclusively AMD, Intel are bribing pensioners to stick with them while AMD are going after millennials.
What Intel are doing is unsustainable long term, but they also don't have the products to compete with AMD, the products that millennials want, Intel are selling Chevrolet Corvair's, AMD are selling Tesla's. The future is AMD, Intel are the past.
IIRC Intel's contracts for product lines are 5-10 years long and a lot of these contracts have weird exclusivity clauses (e.g. contract will say the manufacturer won't put a non-Intel CPU in a laptop that has a higher resolution than X, or other specs). This is why it's often difficult to find AMD laptops with certain specs. Most of the current products are still being made by contracts that were signed before 2017. Soon most of these contracts will be up for renegotiation and AMD is in a very good place to get some of those.
 
Soldato
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AM5 has 3 chipsets: b650, x670 and x670e

The x670e is the "extreme edition" and these boards will have the more premium features - for example only x670e supports PCiE5
 
Soldato
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Eastbourne , East Sussex.
AM5 has 3 chipsets: b650, x670 and x670e

The x670e is the "extreme edition" and these boards will have the more premium features - for example only x670e supports PCiE5

Not quite what this says:


However, all X670E motherboards must offer PCIe 5.0 connectivity to both the GPU and the M.2 NVMe SSD slot or possibly slots, whereas X670 based motherboards can use PCIe 4.0 instead
 
Associate
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1 Nov 2019
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Insane amount of I/O capabilities, they will destroy competition, and because AMD have experience/feedback from AM4 multi gen support, this first generation of AM5 will have much better power budget and reserve for future generation cpu-s, i don't see what could Intel offer with RPL to beat Zen 4, AM5 will be a beast platform with support for at least 2 next gen cpu-s, while RPL will be last one for that platform:
https://wccftech.com/asrock-next-ge...s-pictured-confirmed-amd-am5-ryzen-7000-cpus/
 
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Soldato
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first AM5 motherboard leak, its an x670E model

ASRock got a little bit too excited and posted a Computex video earlier today that contained a brief glimpse of its upcoming X670E Taichi motherboard. The board can be seen with least three M.2 slots and a pair of PCIe 5.0 x16 slots. The rest of the board is covered in heatsinks and various shrouds. The board features Realtek's ALC4082 USB attached audio codec, as well as a ESS ES9218 DAC. It also sports a 26-phase VRM setup


A
 
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