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AMD to unveil Zen 4 CPUs at CES 2022

Soldato
Joined
18 Oct 2002
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12,349
Location
West Midlands
They are, but you've still only got so many to go around

4x for the PCI-E 5.0 NVME is mandated I believe.

Leaving:
16x PCI-E 5.0 for the Graphics card

which still only leaves you with 4x PCI 5.0 lanes (or 8x PCI-E 4.0 or 16x PCI-E 3.0)

Even if lanes end up being split/reduced to lower speeds, then it's doubtful they'll be many boards that do, as it'll incur additional cost with splitter chips and the like

It's also down to physical board space! Saying that I've used a lot of the ASUS Creator boards in builds and they are about the same cost as an equivalent 'enthusiast' board, but with actual useful features not just RGB and LED screens all over it. The new X670 Creator has 3x 16x slots which can be split into 2x 8x PCI-E 5.0 and one 8x PCI-E 4.0, or it can have 1x 8x 5.0 slot, 1x 4x 5.0 slot, (with 2x PCI-E 5.0 NVMe's) and then the 8x 4.0 as well as that. A bit confusing, but it works well if that is how you want it.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Jun 2019
Posts
4,453
Kingston is offering a 16GB DDR5 6000mhz kit for ~£137, seems like a reasonable price.

Low CAS latency stuff costs much more, as per usual.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Aug 2014
Posts
4,574
Agreed, it depends on your setup. To replace my motherboard (X570 Aorus Master) and 32GB of 8 Pack RAM would be expensive, especially to get similar latency with DDR5. Add to that if you have a decent AM4 CPU you aren't going to need an upgrade for some time. Don't tell Gibbo I said that though :cry:
Is a 3900X still decent? :cry:
 
Soldato
Joined
25 Sep 2009
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8,390
Location
Billericay, UK
AMD always has a habit of talking nonsense about release dates. They first announced Zen 4 as being launched in 2H 2022 only then to say at Computex it will be 'fall' 2022 which is probably November. Go back in time a bit they announced Vega back in late 2016 and it was going to be released in 2H 2017, turns out they meant 30th June 2017 :rolleyes:. Such big windows and leaving to the last minute.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Aug 2014
Posts
4,574
I don't think it will bottleneck much. The great thing is there are plenty of upgrade options to just drop in.
It doesn't significantly bottleneck at 4K in the games I play with an RTX 3080 (even with DLSS) so I think I'm okay for now, but if I decide to get one of the next generation graphics cards that may change.

If I do upgrade I'm leaning towards a 5800X3D as long as supply gets sorted out.
 
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Soldato
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Posts
5,816
It doesn't significantly bottleneck at 4K with an RTX 3080 (even with DLSS) so I think I'm okay for now, but if I decide to get one of the next generation graphics cards that may change.

If I do upgrade I'm leaning towards a 5800X3D as long as supply gets sorted out.
I've not tested it in gaming, still on a potato GPU but so far my impression of the 5800X3D is good.
 
Soldato
Joined
15 Oct 2019
Posts
8,639
Location
Uk
It might, all round its very good with a few outliers like MFS and Star Citizen where it blows everything out of the water, that CPU is going to be a tough one to bring down.

On the other hand you would assume AMD aren't going to release such a thing not too long before a new generation if they thought that generation couldn't crack it.

Time will tell.
Maybe they were originally planning to have Vcache on all Zen 4 at release but have had to alter their plans when they realised it was difficult to implement on Zen 3 which meant the 5900X3D was downgraded to the 5800X3D.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Posts
5,816
Robert Hallock has confirmed AM4 will be the cheaper option vs AM5 so it sounds like it will be around for a while. He also thinks cache will have the effect over cores for the time being as it's pretty passive rather than requiring more effort to code for more threads. Gives me confidence AM4 will be relevant for a while yet.
 
Soldato
Joined
30 Jun 2019
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4,453
I think the 5800X3D will be relevant until the '6800X3D' or similar is released. I think AMD will probably release a 16 core V-Cache boosted Zen4 CPU, in 2023.
It seems likely this would give AMD the advantage over Intel's 13 gen. in games, as the 5800X3D granted about an 8% increase in performance (games only) vs the 5800X, despite lower clock speeds.

It looks like Zen4 + V-cache will have a similar amount of L2 cache per core as Raptor Lake, but more L3 cache in total.
 
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Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
10,775
it actually looks like mobo prices could be coming down, maybe manufacturers are finally waking up to the price complaints or maybe their sales just aren't as good as they hoped.

The prices for some of Gigabyte's X670/E boards have been released and at the high end they are significantly lower than before.

For example the x570 Aorus Extreme had a rrp of $700usd and the z690 Aorus Extreme had a rrp of $800usd and now the x670 Aorus Extreme has an rrp of $500usd.


So that's a significant 30% reduction from x570 to x670 pricing and I hope it's not just Gigabyte, that other manufacturers follow suite.

But it's not all good news; Gigabyte seems to have hit this $500 price point by doing cutbacks, so when you put a x570 and x670 Aorus Extreme next to each other they don't look like they should be of the same lineup anymore, a lot of the shiny over the top shroud design is gone and it looks more basic now and less gamery, they even cut down on rgb


Z690 Aorus extreme $800usd





X570 Aorus extreme $700usd





X670 Aorus extreme $500usd

 
Soldato
Joined
30 Jun 2019
Posts
4,453
This is interesting, apparently the Computex demo showed Zen 4 clocks without overclocking:

5.2 to 5.5ghz.

So, probably could eek some more performance out of Zen 4 cores, if cooling allows.
 
Caporegime
Joined
17 Mar 2012
Posts
41,186
Location
ARC-L1, Stanton System
I'm listening to the MLID podcast and to be fair to him he has spotted something interesting.

The strange way AMD got the "31% faster than Alder Lake"

The 12900K rendered 69% vs 100% of the image for the 7950X, so "31% faster" right? not quite, its 31 percentage points faster, not 31% faster, its actually 45% faster, in other words the 12900K would have to gain 45% performance to match the 7950X.

69 / 100 = 1.449 (44.9%)
To proof it
69 + 44.9% = 99.981 (100)

The 7950X is 45% faster than the 12900K.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Posts
5,816
This is interesting, apparently the Computex demo showed Zen 4 clocks without overclocking:

5.2 to 5.5ghz.

So, probably could eek some more performance out of Zen 4 cores, if cooling allows.
Ran on 280mm AIO, looks to be a pretty representative demo, no shenanigans apparent. Memory was 1:1 too apparently.

Some interesting stuff in this video.

 
Associate
Joined
28 Sep 2018
Posts
1,568
it actually looks like mobo prices could be coming down, maybe manufacturers are finally waking up to the price complaints or maybe their sales just aren't as good as they hoped.

The prices for some of Gigabyte's X670/E boards have been released and at the high end they are significantly lower than before.

For example the x570 Aorus Extreme had a rrp of $700usd and the z690 Aorus Extreme had a rrp of $800usd and now the x670 Aorus Extreme has an rrp of $500usd.


So that's a significant 30% reduction from x570 to x670 pricing and I hope it's not just Gigabyte, that other manufacturers follow suite.

But it's not all good news; Gigabyte seems to have hit this $500 price point by doing cutbacks, so when you put a x570 and x670 Aorus Extreme next to each other they don't look like they should be of the same lineup anymore, a lot of the shiny over the top shroud design is gone and it looks more basic now and less gamery, they even cut down on rgb


Z690 Aorus extreme $800usd





X570 Aorus extreme $700usd





X670 Aorus extreme $500usd


Good! Mobo’s have been getting way too expensive at the high end while offering nothing.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Posts
5,816
So, DDR5 running at 6000mhz with the IMC running at full speed?
That's how it seems. There is the spec of the memory then there is Robert Hallock in the livestream confirming 1:1 but not the memory speed. Is there a mismatch or has something been accidentally confirmed? 3000MHz sounds high to me.
 
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