Does something need to be done about dogs?

Soldato
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I hate the word "staffie" so never refer to ours that way. It's not a breed I'd have ever chosen, he was my father-in-laws dog and would have ended up at a rescue centre if we hadn't taken him on (see point above :)) He's by far the most obedient and good natured dog we've ever had and I'd happily choose the same breed again. He's never once shown any aggressive traits even in situations with other dogs (one in particular when a spaniel sank it's teeth in to him, not the first time the same spaniel had bitten another dog) doesn't chase anything other than frisbees and tennis balls and has generally done a very good job of changing other peoples opinion of the breed (generally people who've no experience of the breed and get all their information 2nd/3rd hand or from the Daily Mail)

I know plenty of people with Staffie's, I don't deny that like any breed, most will be docile and nice family pets, but it's undeniable they have the hardware and seeming instinct that when they do get out of control (and all dogs can get out of control) they simply are breed for the efficacy in attacking and that is just borne out by their actions.

Just FYI, from the report above, all mentions of Stafffies:
Media and Prosecutions Analysis:
"Breeds identified in media reporting on incidents are as follows: Staffordshire bull terrier/mix (10)" - Number 1 in the list
"All dog-on-dog deaths involved a single large dog or pair of large dogs (4 German Shepherds/Alsatians, 1 Staffordshire bull terrier, 1 Rottweiler)"
"Of the 31 articles detailing human attacks, 13 articles described non-fatal attacks... Staffordshire bull terrier (1)"
"Dogs implicated in fatal (Human) attacks include Staffordshire bull terrier (3)" - number 1 in the list

Veterinary and Behavioural Perspectives - Data from a study by the Utrecht Department of Veterinay Medicine
"A variety of breeds are represented in the dogs assessed by the Utrecht team including German shepherds, pit bulls, Staffordshire bull terriers and others"

Appendix III - Country Comparison of Dog Attack Legislative Policy and Enforcement Response
"There is currently limited legislation concerning potentially dangerous dogs in Belgium, but, following a number of attacks, there have been moves to outlaw some fighting breeds and guard dogs such as the (American) Staffordshire Terrier"
"Germany’s restrictions on keeping dogs classed as dangerous are determined by each state/municipality although most states have concluded that Pit Bulls, Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers are dangerous and have banned their import"
"Wijk et al. (2019) identify that the Netherlands uses a list of 22 dog breeds, mainly based on physical appearance, bite style, biting intensity and genetic traits. The list includes the (American) Staffordshire Bull Terrier" - A list of potentially dangerous dogs
Spain "A person owning a dangerous dog must have a licence for the dog.38 The following specific breeds (and their cross breeds) are classed as ‘dangerous’: Pit Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier;"


Honestly, what my Mrs endured and the attack on her and our dog by a Staffie was crazy.. the 4 blokes who struggled to free our dog from it's jaw and stop it dragging it down a side alley where horrified when they found out it was a neighbour of theirs, and were up in arms with the Police deeming that dog was a 'good family pet and it poses no threat to the public".. The lies/deceit and the way the Police tried to fob this off tells me that only a fraction of attacks get reported. Apparently that dog was seemingly well adjusted, well socialised, the owner deemed responsible, yet presented with a normal situation, it went nuclear on the first person and animal it came across.
 
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Soldato
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I know plenty of people with Staffie's, I don't deny that like any breed, most will be docile and nice family pets, but it's undeniable they have the hardware and seeming instinct that when they do get out of control (and all dogs can get out of control) they simply are breed for the efficacy in attacking and that is just borne out by their actions.

Just FYI, from the report above, all mentions of Stafffies:
Media and Prosecutions Analysis:
"Breeds identified in media reporting on incidents are as follows: Staffordshire bull terrier/mix (10)" - Number 1 in the list
"All dog-on-dog deaths involved a single large dog or pair of large dogs (4 German Shepherds/Alsatians, 1 Staffordshire bull terrier, 1 Rottweiler)"
"Of the 31 articles detailing human attacks, 13 articles described non-fatal attacks... Staffordshire bull terrier (1)"
"Dogs implicated in fatal (Human) attacks include Staffordshire bull terrier (3)" - number 1 in the list

Veterinary and Behavioural Perspectives - Data from a study by the Utrecht Department of Veterinay Medicine
"A variety of breeds are represented in the dogs assessed by the Utrecht team including German shepherds, pit bulls, Staffordshire bull terriers and others"

Appendix III - Country Comparison of Dog Attack Legislative Policy and Enforcement Response
"There is currently limited legislation concerning potentially dangerous dogs in Belgium, but, following a number of attacks, there have been moves to outlaw some fighting breeds and guard dogs such as the (American) Staffordshire Terrier"
"Germany’s restrictions on keeping dogs classed as dangerous are determined by each state/municipality although most states have concluded that Pit Bulls, Staffordshire Bull Terriers and American Staffordshire Terriers are dangerous and have banned their import"
"Wijk et al. (2019) identify that the Netherlands uses a list of 22 dog breeds, mainly based on physical appearance, bite style, biting intensity and genetic traits. The list includes the (American) Staffordshire Bull Terrier" - A list of potentially dangerous dogs
Spain "A person owning a dangerous dog must have a licence for the dog.38 The following specific breeds (and their cross breeds) are classed as ‘dangerous’: Pit Bull Terrier; Staffordshire Bull Terrier;"


Honestly, what my Mrs endured and the attack on her and our dog by a Staffie was crazy.. the 4 blokes who struggled to free our dog from it's jaw and stop it dragging it down a side alley where horrified when they found out it was a neighbour of theirs, and were up in arms with the Police deeming that dog was a 'good family pet and it poses no threat to the public".. The lies/deceit and the way the Police tried to fob this off tells me that only a fraction of attacks get reported. Apparently that dog was seemingly well adjusted, well socialised, the owner deemed responsible, yet presented with a normal situation, it went nuclear on the first person and animal it came across.

I feel genuinely sorry for your wife, seeing or being involved with a dog that attacks is terrifying and unless they're very small you aren't stopping them. It makes me laugh when people say I'd do this, that or the other if a dog attacked, clearly have no idea what they're talking about. I'd put money on the fact that the one that attacked your wife has history or there's been warning signs but the owners will never admit to it and without any proof the police most likely can't be bothered.

Staffordshire bull terriers do have a bad rep, for some it may well be deserved and I've had a few folk cross the road or ask me if Barney's dangerous :( it is also a dog that attracts the wrong sort of owner due to it's appearance which may also skew the figures, we could ban them but I think all that would do is move the problem to another breed. As usual humans have an innate ability to **** things up.
 
Soldato
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Aren't Labradors one of the most dangerous dogs but just have a good PR department?
Labs are a very popular breed, so will have a higher (and possibly disproportionate) count of accidents/incidents than some other breeds.
However, they're not one of those that people normally associate with being dangerous or aggressive so may not always be reported... plus you have the whole thing about them generally making great Guide Dogs, so there will be some statistical fiddling and skewing going on in various directions, to suit whoever's agenda at the time.
 
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Dogs can end up in a rescue home for many reasons and often its nothing to do with the dog. There was an article just the other day on a rescue center saying they weren't able to cope as they had 45 admissions in one week of dogs by owners that got dogs during lockdown who can no longer afford to keep them. Many of them had medical issues that the owners couldnt afford the vets bills so gave them up.

Very true and it is a shame that so many dogs are given up by unprepared and/or ill-equipped previous owners. I just hope that the real reason for giving it up was given to the shelter by the previous owner.

Not obvious at all unless you have a particularly blinkered view, dogs can end up in rescue homes for many reasons, strays that either have no microchip or the chip details haven't been updated, owners moving into rental house that doesn't allow pets, owner dies and no-one to take on the dog, owner moving abroad, job loss so can no longer afford to keep the dog, illness/incapacity so no longer physically able to look after the dog.

I hate the word "staffie" so never refer to ours that way. It's not a breed I'd have ever chosen, he was my father-in-laws dog and would have ended up at a rescue centre if we hadn't taken him on (see point above :)) He's by far the most obedient and good natured dog we've ever had and I'd happily choose the same breed again. He's never once shown any aggressive traits even in situations with other dogs (one in particular when a spaniel sank it's teeth in to him, not the first time the same spaniel had bitten another dog) doesn't chase anything other than frisbees and tennis balls and has generally done a very good job of changing other peoples opinion of the breed (generally people who've no experience of the breed and get all their information 2nd/3rd hand or from the Daily Mail)
Dog ownership is very popular where I live and makes for interesting viewing, the majority are well trained dogs with responsible owners sadly there's also a fair few ineffectual owners with ill trained or untrained dogs, fortunately they're usually on a lead as they daren't let them off. I've been asked several times about Barney as he's almost never on the lead, I can walk him anywhere and if I tell him he'll stay at my heel until I tell him otherwise, most end up disappointed when they ask how long it took to train him, 10 years is the answer, how old is he? 10 years :D. Training never stops.

As for banning certain breeds you're (not you specifically) focusing on the wrong part of the problem, ban the owners. what will happen if you ban the breeds? the owners who want a dog as a status symbol will choose an available breed, rottweilers, dobermans, german shepards etc the problem wont go away. If you mistreat or train any breed to be aggressive then that's what you'll get.

Yes, the name "staffie" has negative connotations because of the bad publicity and association with a certain type of owner. You sound like a good responsible owner and your hard work paid off. If only all owners were like you but I can't help that feel there are some breeds that have a certain percentage of being untrainable.

I called it staffie as I couldnt be bothered to type. :p

The first question you raised is one I bring up myself, usually owners will reply with that they obedient and kind. So we just go round in circles.

I don't blame you on the shorthand!
 
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Aaaand it looks like another...


A man has been arrested under the dangerous dogs act in relation to the death of the boy, according to the BBC today.

 
Soldato
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It might be a good idea to have a mandatory dog basic training course for all dog owners.

I think some owners humanise dogs and thats unfair on the dog because the dog doesn't look at the owner as a different animal. It thinks the owner is another type of dog.

For the record I've owned 2 working dogs in the past.
 
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Doesn't have the breed listed in that one, the previous one was a bit of a rarer one but I guess usually it's going to be another "nanny dog", "dog of peace" bull terrier type of some sort.

Sounds like it may have been American bullies, again.

 
Soldato
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Do we need to look at dog ownership and something to ensure only the right people can have a dog? My thought is yes, but how could we do this?
I owned multi west highland white terrier dogs over the last 30 plus years and they never killed anyone yet

But one did kill my hamster :o
 
Soldato
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As long as people treat dogs as if they are actual children, the attacks will happen more.

Don't confuse this with animal abuse but a dog is a pack animal and strong leadership from the owner is required to assign the pecking order within the pack.

Too many people do not instill discipline in their dogs which allows the dog to think they are the alpha in the pack and so will act accordingly.
 
Soldato
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As long as people treat dogs as if they are actual children, the attacks will happen more.

Don't confuse this with animal abuse but a dog is a pack animal and strong leadership from the owner is required to assign the pecking order within the pack.

Too many people do not instill discipline in their dogs which allows the dog to think they are the alpha in the pack and so will act accordingly.


The alpha idea was debunked a while ago.

Dogs need consistency, thorough training, a non-violent environment and the ability to completely trust their owners.
 
Soldato
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You should need a licence to own a dog, and that should include some form of training before and after you can get a dog.
There are way too many terrible owners. Asides from the horrific physical attacks on people and pets, there is a lot of routine antisocial behaviour by dog owners that makes life less safe and less pleasant for everyone else, and for some reason we are all expected to put up with it. Whether that be allowing dogs off the lead to bark at, sniff or lick strangers or leaving **** everywhere including public footpaths, children's playgrounds or dangling in bags from trees. This kind of behaviour is absolutely routine, and I will encounter it nearly every time I go for a walk or bike ride.
 
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Soldato
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The alpha idea was debunked a while ago.

Dogs need consistency, thorough training, a non-violent environment and the ability to completely trust their owners.

So being the leader of the pack then?

That article conflates being the leader (alpha) with dominance which infers aggressiveness.

There is nothing wrong with tapping a puppy/dog on the nose should they misbehave - again, I do not mean beat slapping/punching/kicking them.
 
Soldato
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The alpha idea was debunked a while ago.

Dogs need consistency, thorough training, a non-violent environment and the ability to completely trust their owners.
The article is vague, and its suggestion of using treats to reward is the same as alpha dog training, article seems lacking.
 
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