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NVIDIA 4000 Series

Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
10,838
The reason why AIO liquid cooling will be common next gen is cooling itself of a premium product. The whole point of a premium card is that it runs faster and cooler than entry level but because nextbgen cards runs so hot no one will be able to stick a tiny cheap cooler on a RTx4090 and so if someone like ASUS tries to make all its RTX4090's air cooled there will be almost no difference in performance or temperature between the models simply because there is no room for product segmentation, every air cooled 4090 is going to run at 80c doesn't matter if it's entry level or a Strix

That's where water cooling comes in, it's the same only way they'll be able to segment their product stack by offering cards that run faster and cooler than entry level models so yes I absolutely 100% believe there will be lots Of liquid cooled cards next generation. And if somehow I'm completely wrong and all they sell is 600w entry and high end air cooled 4090s then there will be zero reason to buy anything other than the entry level model and you can quote me on this.


I know I'm right as long as the 600w rumours are accurate because the 3090ti is only 500w and we already see that happening, most of the high end 3090ti's are AIO liquid cooled
 
Soldato
Joined
31 Oct 2002
Posts
8,670
The reason why AIO liquid cooling will be common next gen is cooling itself of a premium product. The whole point of a premium card is that it runs faster and cooler than entry level but because nextbgen cards runs so hot no one will be able to stick a tiny cheap cooler on a RTx4090 and so if someone like ASUS tries to make all its RTX4090's air cooled there will be almost no difference in performance or temperature between the models simply because there is no room for product segmentation, every air cooled 4090 is going to run at 80c doesn't matter if it's entry level or a Strix

That's where water cooling comes in, it's the same only way they'll be able to segment their product stack by offering cards that run faster and cooler than entry level models so yes I absolutely 100% believe there will be lots Of liquid cooled cards next generation. And if somehow I'm completely wrong and all they sell is 600w entry and high end air cooled 4090s then there will be zero reason to buy anything other than the entry level model and you can quote me on this.


I know I'm right as long as the 600w rumours are accurate because the 3090ti is only 500w and we already see that happening, most of the high end 3090ti's are AIO liquid cooled

I feel GPU's with a built in AIO would be far more popular were they to make the pump RPM adjustable. All the cards I tried and seen have had "noisy" pumps that run at full speed all the time (or close to it). Having 0db at idle is a feature sought after by many and is obviously achievable on air with fan stop.

Also, many AIO manufactuers include a fan on the GPU even with an external radiator. This smaller fan is usually very loud, as it's such a small diameter and has to spin and high RPM to do anything.

Hope some AIO's, NV and AMD adopt the same design as on the Vega64 Liquid cooled, but with an adjustable pump RPM and design to account for a low flow rate at idle. I owned the Vega64 LC, excellent cooling system and design, would have been perfect with a lower pump speed at idle.
 
Associate
Joined
18 Apr 2010
Posts
392
The reason why AIO liquid cooling will be common next gen is cooling itself of a premium product. The whole point of a premium card is that it runs faster and cooler than entry level but because nextbgen cards runs so hot no one will be able to stick a tiny cheap cooler on a RTx4090 and so if someone like ASUS tries to make all its RTX4090's air cooled there will be almost no difference in performance or temperature between the models simply because there is no room for product segmentation, every air cooled 4090 is going to run at 80c doesn't matter if it's entry level or a Strix

That's where water cooling comes in, it's the same only way they'll be able to segment their product stack by offering cards that run faster and cooler than entry level models so yes I absolutely 100% believe there will be lots Of liquid cooled cards next generation. And if somehow I'm completely wrong and all they sell is 600w entry and high end air cooled 4090s then there will be zero reason to buy anything other than the entry level model and you can quote me on this.


I know I'm right as long as the 600w rumours are accurate because the 3090ti is only 500w and we already see that happening, most of the high end 3090ti's are AIO liquid
The reason why AIO liquid cooling will be common next gen is cooling itself of a premium product. The whole point of a premium card is that it runs faster and cooler than entry level but because nextbgen cards runs so hot no one will be able to stick a tiny cheap cooler on a RTx4090 and so if someone like ASUS tries to make all its RTX4090's air cooled there will be almost no difference in performance or temperature between the models simply because there is no room for product segmentation, every air cooled 4090 is going to run at 80c doesn't matter if it's entry level or a Strix

That's where water cooling comes in, it's the same only way they'll be able to segment their product stack by offering cards that run faster and cooler than entry level models so yes I absolutely 100% believe there will be lots Of liquid cooled cards next generation. And if somehow I'm completely wrong and all they sell is 600w entry and high end air cooled 4090s then there will be zero reason to buy anything other than the entry level model and you can quote me on this.


I know I'm right as long as the 600w rumours are accurate because the 3090ti is only 500w and we already see that happening, most of the high end 3090ti's are AIO liquid cooled
Makes sense really and fingers crossed this happens as I have been looking forward to getting a liquid cooled gpu for a while now!
 
Associate
Joined
27 Jan 2022
Posts
152
Location
UK
Currently £700 for a 3070 Ti, yeah expect the 4000 series to be sold out immediately and cue NVidia saying they had no idea there would be so much demand. To be fair they had to order the silicon chips a while ago, its just a guess. Prices will be around £500-600 for a 4070 and then £600-700 when the Ti comes out.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
10,838
Kopeite says he has the AD102's SM architecture block diagrams and details:

  • 70% more GPC units
  • 50% More FP32 Cuda Cores
  • 50% More L1 Cache
  • 16x More L2 Cache
  • 2x more ROP cores per GPC
  • 4th Gen Tensor & 3rd Gen RT Cores

The NVIDIA Ada Lovelace AD102 GPU will feature up to 12 GPC (Graphics Processing Clusters). This is an increase of 70% versus GA102 which features only 7 GPCs. Each GPC will consist of 6 TPCs and 2 SMs which is the same configuration as the existing chip. Each SM (Streaming Multiprocessor) will house four sub-cores which is also the same as the GA102 GPU. What's changed is the FP32 & the INT32 core configuration. Each sub-core will include 128 FP32 units but combined FP32+INT32 units will go up to 192. This is because the FP32 units don't share the same sub-core as the IN32 units. The 128 FP32 cores are separate from the 64 INT32 cores.

So in total, each sub-core will consist of 128 FP32 plus 64 INT32 units for a total of 192 units. Each SM will have a total of 512 FP32 units plus 256 INT32 units for a total of 768 units. And since there are a total of 24 SM units (2 per GPC), we are looking at 12,288 FP32 Units and 6,144 INT32 units for a total of 18,432 cores. Each SM will also include two Wrap Schedules (32 thread/CLK) for 64 wraps per SM. This is a 50% increase on the cores (FP32+INT32) and a 33% increase in Wraps/Threads vs the GA102 GPU.

Moving over to the cache, this is another segment where NVIDIA has given a big boost over the existing Ampere GPUs. The Ada Lovelace GPUs will pack 192 KB of L1 cache per SM, an increase of 50% over Ampere. That's a total of 4.5 MB of L1 cache on the top AD102 GPU. The L2 cache will be increased to 96 MB. This is a 16x increase over the Ampere GPU that hosts just 6 MB of L2 cache. The cache will be shared across the GPU.

Finally, we have the ROPs which are also increased to 32 per GPC, an increase of 2x over Ampere. You are looking at 384 ROPs on the AD102.



 
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Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
10,838
I'm really happy they've increased the amount of ROPs per GPC - this should help Nvidia in the rasterisation performance department
 
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TNA

TNA

Soldato
Joined
13 Mar 2008
Posts
21,667
Location
London
Kopeite says he has the AD102's SM architecture block diagrams and details:

  • 70% more GPC units
  • 50% More FP32 Cuda Cores
  • 50% More L1 Cache
  • 16x More L2 Cache
  • 2x more ROP cores per GPC
  • 4th Gen Tensor & 3rd Gen RT Cores

The NVIDIA Ada Lovelace AD102 GPU will feature up to 12 GPC (Graphics Processing Clusters). This is an increase of 70% versus GA102 which features only 7 GPCs. Each GPC will consist of 6 TPCs and 2 SMs which is the same configuration as the existing chip. Each SM (Streaming Multiprocessor) will house four sub-cores which is also the same as the GA102 GPU. What's changed is the FP32 & the INT32 core configuration. Each sub-core will include 128 FP32 units but combined FP32+INT32 units will go up to 192. This is because the FP32 units don't share the same sub-core as the IN32 units. The 128 FP32 cores are separate from the 64 INT32 cores.

So in total, each sub-core will consist of 128 FP32 plus 64 INT32 units for a total of 192 units. Each SM will have a total of 512 FP32 units plus 256 INT32 units for a total of 768 units. And since there are a total of 24 SM units (2 per GPC), we are looking at 12,288 FP32 Units and 6,144 INT32 units for a total of 18,432 cores. Each SM will also include two Wrap Schedules (32 thread/CLK) for 64 wraps per SM. This is a 50% increase on the cores (FP32+INT32) and a 33% increase in Wraps/Threads vs the GA102 GPU.

Moving over to the cache, this is another segment where NVIDIA has given a big boost over the existing Ampere GPUs. The Ada Lovelace GPUs will pack 192 KB of L1 cache per SM, an increase of 50% over Ampere. That's a total of 4.5 MB of L1 cache on the top AD102 GPU. The L2 cache will be increased to 96 MB. This is a 16x increase over the Ampere GPU that hosts just 6 MB of L2 cache. The cache will be shared across the GPU.

Finally, we have the ROPs which are also increased to 32 per GPC, an increase of 2x over Ampere. You are looking at 384 ROPs on the AD102.



Those sound like monsters. You sure you are going to be able to fit three in? :p :cry:
 
Associate
Joined
13 Jun 2013
Posts
433
i just hope the hype surrounding the 4000 series turns out to be true. i'm not buying unless they give atleast 25% fps increase over my 3080ti.

how are you planning to secure a 4000 series gpu? i'm signed up to Telegram alerts that ping me when 3000 series FE cards are available, it seems Scan is the only place that sells them (maybe more retailers do, but its only Scan i get told by Telegram). I bought my 3080ti FE this way, hope the 4000 series will work the same way (i'll get pinged).
 
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Caporegime
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Posts
26,908
Is there any indication how big these gpus will be? I've read that the 4080 will be the same size as a 3090???? Just if so, may have to get a new case! Either that or move my front fans to the top.
 
Soldato
Joined
6 Feb 2019
Posts
10,838
i just hope the hype surrounding the 4000 series turns out to be true. i'm not buying unless they give atleast 25% fps increase over my 3080ti.

how are you planning to secure a 4000 series gpu? i'm signed up to Telegram alerts that ping me when 3000 series FE cards are available, it seems Scan is the only place that sells them (maybe more retailers do, but its only Scan i get told by Telegram). I bought my 3080ti FE this way, hope the 4000 series will work the same way (i'll get pinged).

Me? I just ask the store where I shop to hold one for me, skips all the queues and don't have to refresh web pages all day and night trying to press buy like everyone else - the perks of knowing the owner :D
 
Soldato
Joined
28 Oct 2009
Posts
2,738
Location
Birmingham
i just hope the hype surrounding the 4000 series turns out to be true. i'm not buying unless they give atleast 25% fps increase over my 3080ti.

how are you planning to secure a 4000 series gpu? i'm signed up to Telegram alerts that ping me when 3000 series FE cards are available, it seems Scan is the only place that sells them (maybe more retailers do, but its only Scan i get told by Telegram). I bought my 3080ti FE this way, hope the 4000 series will work the same way (i'll get pinged).

At this moment they are the only ones that handle founders edition cards

Personally didn't take long getting FE card they did drops more often at that time seems they have really reduced the drops now

Ideally I wanted AIB but just was way overpriced over FE , this time will try for AIB on release but depends how much difference in price might go FE again

Won't rule out AMD but they don't do UK drops maybe that will change for next release ?
 
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Caporegime
Joined
18 Oct 2002
Posts
37,408
Location
Ireland
With the price of cards now aio's should be refillable so they're not unusable after several years. iirc it only took fury x cards around 4 years to start showing lower liquid levels making them dodgy to use. Not like adding a port to the rad to at least give that option would cost much either.
 
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