Poll: Spanish Grand Prix 2022, Barcelona - Race 6

Rate the 2021 Spanish Grand Prix out of ten


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Soldato
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I think he's now gone back on that, and accepts responsibility. Said it was the heat of the moment etc.

Yeah, I actually thought from the quote I read that it was a pretty good/mature comment from him. Accepted that in the heat of the moment with no real context drivers say all manner of stupid stuff :cry:

Kinda can apply the same to the Verstappen DRS whinging/swearing, especially as he knew Leclerc would be walking off into the distance until he retired. It was still hilarious mind you, just also somewhat understandable :p
 
Soldato
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Maybe they should test turning DRS off altogether for one race? Show us how successful these new regs have been..
It throws up the observation that the redbull on equal terms found it very difficult to overtake a slower car. So the new rules have demonstrably failed.
So why bother at all with the new rules, just make the cars as simple as possible but enforce a barn door rear wing with massive drs.
In all honest, whinging about no drs just says it all,
 
Soldato
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Yeah, K-Mag got in close with Hamilton who was understeering slightly, so I can see why he said what he did at the time. But it was really just a case of misjudgment of space on first lap.
 
Caporegime
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Yeah, K-Mag got in close with Hamilton who was understeering slightly, so I can see why he said what he did at the time. But it was really just a case of misjudgment of space on first lap.

People are really overplaying this understeer thing. Lewis was about a tyre-width from the kerb when KMag hit him, much the same as the cars in front. KMag drove an unsafe line, causing the accident.
 
Associate
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100% Magnussen's fault, Lewis literally couldn't have been further to the right without binning the car. KMag had the entire track to avoid him. It's not even fathomable that Lewis could be blamed for it, genuinely don't see how anyone would think so. Massively misjudged by KMag and just overall very poor driving.
 
Soldato
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Yeah, K-Mag got in close with Hamilton who was understeering slightly, so I can see why he said what he did at the time. But it was really just a case of misjudgment of space on first lap.
My opinion on the matter. Hamilton never really got close to the apex (or had understeered away from it by the point of contact) and Magnussen tried to be opportunistic on his softer tyres. Both could have avoided it by leaving a little more room.

No-one was predominantly to blame, it was just a racing incident.
 
Soldato
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It throws up the observation that the redbull on equal terms found it very difficult to overtake a slower car. So the new rules have demonstrably failed.
Prior to seeing the current cars race, I would have liked to have seen them try without DRS on some tracks at least. Then the reports from testing came that the slipstream isn't as effective as before (somewhat obvious in hindsight), and all of a sudden any real chances of overtakes wouldn't exist.

I think looking back at before DRS we had little in the way of overtaking too. Many remember the 2000s with rose tinted glasses, highlighting some of the epic races we did have (Brazil 2003, Suzuka 2005 and so on) while forgetting that much of the decade was Trulli trains and waiting until the refuelling stops to overtake. It still needed a big offset in pace, tyres or fuel, unreliability, a mistake or inclement weather to be in position for 90% of overtaking attempts. The cars are too easy to drive now (no manual gearbox, the engine maps are far too smooth), the tracks too smooth and predictable (no more climbing over kerbs or bumps causing mistakes) and braking zones far too short for any non-DRS passing to be likely.

2022 has been a bit of a breath of fresh air there in one regard - that the cars are a little more difficult to drive and some (Latifi in particular) are struggling more than before.

The same goes for most racing series though. It's why I enjoy Formula E and Indycar so much, as the racing is close and there are genuine overtakes, with an without their overtaking aids (mandatory attack zone and push-to-pass allocation). F1 is obviously still the pinnacle and we still have some great races, but with all the new tracks it has forgotten a lot of what made it great ~30+ years ago.
 
Caporegime
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My opinion on the matter. Hamilton never really got close to the apex (or had understeered away from it by the point of contact) and Magnussen tried to be opportunistic on his softer tyres. Both could have avoided it by leaving a little more room.

No-one was predominantly to blame, it was just a racing incident.


Hamilton is no further from the kerb than the two cars in front, and closer than Mick Schumacher behind. The racing line is always going to edge away from the kerb as the continues. KMag is much too close; it was his fault.
 
Soldato
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Hamilton is no further from the kerb than the two cars in front, and closer than Mick Schumacher behind. The racing line is always going to edge away from the kerb as the continues. KMag is much too close; it was his fault.
But Hamilton is understeering away from the kerb at the point of contact, just as Magnussen is moving towards the kerb.

Hamilton went in a bit hot for his medium tyres considering the car ahead and probably didn't expect Magnussen to come around the outside, though it was a common move in the support races, while Magnussen was too aggressive at moving towards Hamilton, and they inevitably met somewhere in between.
 
Caporegime
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But Hamilton is understeering away from the kerb at the point of contact, just as Magnussen is moving towards the kerb.

The tiniest bit of expected movement away from the kerb shouldn't cause an accident.

Hamilton went in a bit hot for his medium tyres considering the car ahead and probably didn't expect Magnussen to come around the outside, though it was a common move in the support races, while Magnussen was too aggressive at moving towards Hamilton, and they inevitably met somewhere in between.

He's no further away from the kerb than other cars, he didn't go in too hot. Magnussen put himself in a stupid position.
 
Soldato
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We're going to have to agree to disagree then.

I can clearly see Hamilton moving from maybe 30-50cm away from the kerb to closer to a metre or so, while Magnussen turns in towards the kerb (admittedly a bit more than Hamilton is moving out). You can see Hamilton also getting a twitch on just before contact, whether through trying to turn further towards the inside or just because he was at the edge of grip - although that by stage contact was inevitable anyway, it wasn't the cause.

Clearly the stewards (who have many more camera angles than we see) and Brundle thought the same, that it was just a racing incident.
 
Man of Honour
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Leclerc could be in trouble later this year with PU components. MGU-H and turbo failed apparently.

Wouldn't be so bad, but those were already his 2nd of each, and only 3 allowed each year before penalties.
 
Caporegime
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We're going to have to agree to disagree then.

I can clearly see Hamilton moving from maybe 30-50cm away from the kerb to closer to a metre or so, while Magnussen turns in towards the kerb (admittedly a bit more than Hamilton is moving out). You can see Hamilton also getting a twitch on just before contact, whether through trying to turn further towards the inside or just because he was at the edge of grip - although that by stage contact was inevitable anyway, it wasn't the cause.

Clearly the stewards (who have many more camera angles than we see) and Brundle thought the same, that it was just a racing incident.

Even so, Hamilton has every right to move an inch or so to the outside/have some understeer.

It was Hamilton's corner and Mags had acres of room on the outside.

From all the videos, i think it is clear Mags would have hit Lewis whether Lewis moved that inch or two to the right or not. He was coming in far too hot and aggressively and for there to have been no contact Hamilton would have had to have been squeezed of the track to the right. Personally it looks like Mags turned in too much leaving absoluteley zero margin for any movement/error between his and Lewis' tyres.

It was a reckless and stupid move and i think Mags only didnt get a penalty because it was the first lap.
 
Soldato
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Tbf, Lewis moves laterally more than I realised he did (it's more than an inch or two). Other drivers get heralded as genius' for overtaking round the outside, I'm sure it happened later in the race, but K-mag put himself in a stupid position...?

I personally agree it was just a racing incident.
 
Soldato
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Kinda can apply the same to the Verstappen DRS whinging/swearing
Well the difference is that MV goes nuts on his team/crew mid race and you can tell he has zero respect for them :o Id' accept a driver having zero respect for another driver in the race/in teh heat of the moment but the way MV talks to his team is just way too aggressive. But, Red Bull gonna Red Bull...
People are really overplaying this understeer thing. Lewis was about a tyre-width from the kerb when KMag hit him, much the same as the cars in front. KMag drove an unsafe line, causing the accident.
Yeah agreed. If he wanted to take him on the outside he had the whole other half of the track to play with. I'm no F1 driver but even I know it's a big risk getting that close to anyone on the first lap, down the outside. Heavy fuel load, cold tyres etc. It's asking for trouble and the twitch from Lewis proved exactly why. Because it'll end in tears. He ruined Lewis's race and therefore should have been (mildly) punished for it.
 
Soldato
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Well the difference is that MV goes nuts on his team/crew mid race and you can tell he has zero respect for them :o Id' accept a driver having zero respect for another driver in the race/in teh heat of the moment but the way MV talks to his team is just way too aggressive. But, Red Bull gonna Red Bull...

Yeah agreed. If he wanted to take him on the outside he had the whole other half of the track to play with. I'm no F1 driver but even I know it's a big risk getting that close to anyone on the first lap, down the outside. Heavy fuel load, cold tyres etc. It's asking for trouble and the twitch from Lewis proved exactly why. Because it'll end in tears. He ruined Lewis's race and therefore should have been (mildly) punished for it.

Sometimes I guess but I didn't get that from the DRS incidents, he was more aiming it at the car than the team, imo. But quite a few of the drivers get (or at least sound) quite snappy/aggressive during the races even over minor stuff.
 
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