The Manchester United Club Thread **No Spoilers**

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Ole was letting the ego's of the players run wild, he would of lost total control, wins last year papered over cracks that were apparent in some already extremely poor performances even where United got wins. It's just now been exposed, there's an arguement United wouldn't of been near 2nd last season or the Europa league final had they not got lucky in a lot of games. Difference is they've been punished this year.

Wouldn;t of won anything with ole, and won't win anything with that squad, I think you're pretty deluded.
 
Soldato
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Ole was letting the ego's of the players run wild, he would of lost total control, wins last year papered over cracks that were apparent in some already extremely poor performances even where United got wins. It's just now been exposed, there's an arguement United wouldn't of been near 2nd last season or the Europa league final had they not got lucky in a lot of games. Difference is they've been punished this year.

Wouldn;t of won anything with ole, and won't win anything with that squad, I think you're pretty deluded.

So you work at United and know what happens in the background? All of what you said is pure opinion.

Fact is we got second last year, unbeaten away record and final of Europa League. Those are the facts. Saying it was lucky to get those is pure opinion.

Ole was the PE teacher and Ralf is supposed to be the professor but he was totally shambolic. The reason he is not kept on in a consultancy role was because he was completely inept. You can can go around blaming everyone but he was paid to do a job which he did poorly. The best managers in all fields of work get the best out of what they have. Not blame it on the ones around them.

I am not saying Ole was a god or anything but the simple free pass Ralf seems to get is hilarious.
 
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Of course it's my opinion, one I probably share with alot of people, you did get second sure but everyone else also had a totally shambolic season, looks what's happened as soon as they have a half decent one, United left in the dust.
 
Don
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It's also a fact that Utd got knocked out the CL in the group stages, were beaten by a far inferior Villarreal side in the final of the Europa and never came close to challenging for the title. Utd's second place finish was as a result of Liverpool having an unprecedented injury crisis, Lampard and Chelsea being Lampard and Chelsea, not because Utd were particularly good because they weren't. It's not after the fact that people are saying Ole and that Utd side weren't very good, most people were saying it at the time too.

Even when Utd won games under Ole, they very rarely played well, often being out played by poorer sides for large spells in games only to sneak a win with isolated attacks or dodgy penalties. Utd were going nowhere under Ole because the guy was totally clueless.

Things haven't got much better under Rangnick but what were people expecting? Utd's squad are, for the most part, completely the opposite of how Rangnick wants to play. You can't expect Rangnick to come in and play high intensity front foot football with a team of can't runs and won't runs.

I'm not just saying this now, after Utd have collapsed, I was saying it last season too - this Utd squad is an unbalanced mess. Utd became overly reliant on Fernandes last season but his inclusion in the side almost forces Utd to play a system that doesn't suit the vast majority of the rest of their midfield and attacking options. Greenwood, Rashford & Martial were all perfectly suited to playing wide in a 4-3-3, which is also the system best suited to Pogba and can also hide the deficiencies of McTominay & Fred in midfield. Utd spent £130m on two defenders that shouldn't be near any side expecting to challenge at the top table - there are pub players with more footballing ability than AWB and the moment Utd push up the pitch Maguire is like a tugboat stranded in the middle of the north sea.

I saw a couple of comments on here saying it was an exaggeration to say Utd need a complete rebuild (or words to that effect) but I fail to see how they don't. If you were starting from scratch and building a 25 man squad to challenge City and Liverpool in the future, how many of this current Utd squad would you honestly keep. I don't think you're keeping more than 5 or 6 and most, if not all of those would only be squad players too. You can't blame Rangnick for that.
 
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It's also a fact that Utd got knocked out the CL in the group stages, were beaten by a far inferior Villarreal side in the final of the Europa and never came close to challenging for the title. Utd's second place finish was as a result of Liverpool having an unprecedented injury crisis, Lampard and Chelsea being Lampard and Chelsea, not because Utd were particularly good because they weren't. It's not after the fact that people are saying Ole and that Utd side weren't very good, most people were saying it at the time too.

Even when Utd won games under Ole, they very rarely played well, often being out played by poorer sides for large spells in games only to sneak a win with isolated attacks or dodgy penalties. Utd were going nowhere under Ole because the guy was totally clueless.

Things haven't got much better under Rangnick but what were people expecting? Utd's squad are, for the most part, completely the opposite of how Rangnick wants to play. You can't expect Rangnick to come in and play high intensity front foot football with a team of can't runs and won't runs.

I'm not just saying this now, after Utd have collapsed, I was saying it last season too - this Utd squad is an unbalanced mess. Utd became overly reliant on Fernandes last season but his inclusion in the side almost forces Utd to play a system that doesn't suit the vast majority of the rest of their midfield and attacking options. Greenwood, Rashford & Martial were all perfectly suited to playing wide in a 4-3-3, which is also the system best suited to Pogba and can also hide the deficiencies of McTominay & Fred in midfield. Utd spent £130m on two defenders that shouldn't be near any side expecting to challenge at the top table - there are pub players with more footballing ability than AWB and the moment Utd push up the pitch Maguire is like a tugboat stranded in the middle of the north sea.

I saw a couple of comments on here saying it was an exaggeration to say Utd need a complete rebuild (or words to that effect) but I fail to see how they don't. If you were starting from scratch and building a 25 man squad to challenge City and Liverpool in the future, how many of this current Utd squad would you honestly keep. I don't think you're keeping more than 5 or 6 and most, if not all of those would only be squad players too. You can't blame Rangnick for that.

That's what I wanted to say above, you just said it better haha
 
Soldato
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Exactly, if you watched the games under Ole, they were mostly dire with the odd lucky goal or penalty. It was ponderous, disjointed stuff 9 times out of 10. It was awful to watch. It made me feel miserable after each game.

Don’t get me wrong, now it’s just as bad, but Rangnick is at least being honest and not saying everything’s great, unlike Ole with his ‘Good set of ‘boys’’ nonsense, when all we’ve seen is abject behaviour and a lack of effort.

Totally agree with Baz on Rangnick’s predicament.
 

fez

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Rangnicks only failing in my opinion is on the motivational side but I think that he is in an impossible position.

- Interim manager so players don't care
- Has to try and keep players happy whilst making them do things they don't want to do ie. run and work hard and do as they are told
- Didn't get any players in January
- Has had a pretty ropey time with injuries and player form (Rashford, Ronaldo couldn't buy a goal for a few months, Cavani has been injured a lot, Pogba has been injured a lot, Shaw has missed a lot of the season, lost Fred and McTominay for a stretch, Varane has been in and out)
- Greenwood is gone and was one of our few game changers and vital to us.

Hes basically had as rough a time as he could have possibly had and inherited a lazy bunch of entitled *****.

I think that with some careful pruning we can recover over the next few years if we recruit carefully but I am not counting my chickens yet. It takes a while to change the culture at a club and Uniteds culture doesn't lend itself to being an elite football club.
 
Don
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Don’t get me wrong, now it’s just as bad, but Rangnick is at least being honest and not saying everything’s great, unlike Ole with his ‘Good set of ‘boys’’ nonsense, when all we’ve seen is abject behaviour and a lack of effort.
Had Rangnick had a long term contract he wouldn't be saying what he is. It's easy to praise him for being honest but it's only because he has nothing to lose. He'll be gone in a months time and doesn't have to worry about upsetting anybody.
 
Man of Honour
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It's also a fact that Utd got knocked out the CL in the group stages, were beaten by a far inferior Villarreal side in the final of the Europa and never came close to challenging for the title. Utd's second place finish was as a result of Liverpool having an unprecedented injury crisis, Lampard and Chelsea being Lampard and Chelsea, not because Utd were particularly good because they weren't. It's not after the fact that people are saying Ole and that Utd side weren't very good, most people were saying it at the time too.

Even when Utd won games under Ole, they very rarely played well, often being out played by poorer sides for large spells in games only to sneak a win with isolated attacks or dodgy penalties. Utd were going nowhere under Ole because the guy was totally clueless.

Things haven't got much better under Rangnick but what were people expecting? Utd's squad are, for the most part, completely the opposite of how Rangnick wants to play. You can't expect Rangnick to come in and play high intensity front foot football with a team of can't runs and won't runs.

I'm not just saying this now, after Utd have collapsed, I was saying it last season too - this Utd squad is an unbalanced mess. Utd became overly reliant on Fernandes last season but his inclusion in the side almost forces Utd to play a system that doesn't suit the vast majority of the rest of their midfield and attacking options. Greenwood, Rashford & Martial were all perfectly suited to playing wide in a 4-3-3, which is also the system best suited to Pogba and can also hide the deficiencies of McTominay & Fred in midfield. Utd spent £130m on two defenders that shouldn't be near any side expecting to challenge at the top table - there are pub players with more footballing ability than AWB and the moment Utd push up the pitch Maguire is like a tugboat stranded in the middle of the north sea.

I saw a couple of comments on here saying it was an exaggeration to say Utd need a complete rebuild (or words to that effect) but I fail to see how they don't. If you were starting from scratch and building a 25 man squad to challenge City and Liverpool in the future, how many of this current Utd squad would you honestly keep. I don't think you're keeping more than 5 or 6 and most, if not all of those would only be squad players too. You can't blame Rangnick for that.

Completely agree. My hope was Rangnick would be able to influence things higher up, and I hope he still can, at least to a degree. The fact he's struggled to motivate this particular set of players is not really a poor reflection on him. It's an impossible job. That's not to say he's done well or anything, but it's a complicated situation.

I hope Ten Hag comes in and aggressively starts cleaning house. He needs to quickly identify which players will at least make an effort and go from there. Ability is irrelevant if they just walk around on the pitch. From what I can gather, he expects players to run through brick walls for the team and goes mental if they don't. So this is going to be interesting... :o :p
 
Don
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It's going to be fascinating to see how things work out with Utd over the next season or so. ETH has got to find a way to make Utd competitive while he's making the changes to the side or else there will be plenty of supporters like @The Running Man calling for his head after 6 months.
 

fez

fez

Soldato
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I think that the only potential serious issues will come from Ronaldo and Rashford. Most of the bad eggs are leaving or will be sold in the summer and I think plenty of our players will buck up their ideas.

Lets be fair here, with the quality we will have in the squad, we will be competing for top 4 unless something goes drastically wrong next season and based on the changes being made at the club I can't see it going that badly.
 
Soldato
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It's going to be fascinating to see how things work out with Utd over the next season or so. ETH has got to find a way to make Utd competitive while he's making the changes to the side or else there will be plenty of supporters like @The Running Man calling for his head after 6 months.
6 months?! i like your optimism, i'd give it 6 weeks before they're baying for blood if ETH doesn't have UTD smashing all in front of them from the get go.
 

fez

fez

Soldato
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6 months?! i like your optimism, i'd give it 6 weeks before they're baying for blood if ETH doesn't have UTD smashing all in front of them from the get go.

They really won't. Redcafe is very much behind ETH. The majority have come around to the idea that the squad is a mess and needs work and we need a manager who creates a team that plays as a team. There will always be people who don't like it but unless we are relegation fodder and playing awfully the fans will back him for a few seasons at least.
 
Soldato
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They really won't. Redcafe is very much behind ETH. The majority have come around to the idea that the squad is a mess and needs work and we need a manager who creates a team that plays as a team. There will always be people who don't like it but unless we are relegation fodder and playing awfully the fans will back him for a few seasons at least.
sorry, i wasn't talking about normal fans. it was more in relation to the likes of runningman. :p
 
Don
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The Running Man isn't a one off. There will be some goodwill to begin with for ETH from the majority of supporters but that won't last if the side aren't performing on the pitch. 6 months and certainly a season is a long time in football and supporters will want to see something to hold onto, a reason to be optimistic. If Utd are still churning out performances and results as they have been this season then you won't find many Utd supporters "trusting the process".
 
Man of Honour
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I'd say that despite not really knowing a lot about him, 90% of Man Utd fans wanted Ten Hag in. He was the popular choice and that will certainly help in terms of patience.

However, things will have to improve significantly so people can at least see something is being worked towards on the pitch, and it can be refined from there - much like Klopp.

To add, it's not just about Ten Hag, the structure above him has to be right. We need to get players he wants but that also make some financial sense too. Hopefully that is being put in place because it was instrumental with Klopp...
 

fez

fez

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I wouldn't say that expecting some signs of progress in the first season in at all unreasonable. If its obvious that we are getting better and that there is an intent and style which we are aiming for then ETH will get time. If we are near the bottom of the table and playing like crap then he won't and I don't think thats unfair. You have to be god awful to be near the bottom of the league.
 
Don
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I wouldn't say that expecting some signs of progress in the first season in at all unreasonable. If its obvious that we are getting better and that there is an intent and style which we are aiming for then ETH will get time. If we are near the bottom of the table and playing like crap then he won't and I don't think thats unfair. You have to be god awful to be near the bottom of the league.
What constitutes signs of progress and what is the least you're expecting from him short term? I struggle to believe that a noisy section of Utd supporters won't be calling for his head if Utd aren't in the top 4 spots in February for instance.

I'm not sure Utd have reached Arsenal level lows of 2017-2021 to be saying "trust the process" while Utd are sitting 6th in the League because the average age of the side is 23 for instance. Arsenal had to go through years of managed decline for the fans to start accepting that. I don't think Utd fans are there yet and you'll spend some money in the summer which will raise expectations too. There will be some that are patient but you have to look at some of the comments coming out re Rangnick to see that it won't be shared by everybody.
 

fez

fez

Soldato
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What constitutes signs of progress and what is the least you're expecting from him short term? I struggle to believe that a noisy section of Utd supporters won't be calling for his head if Utd aren't in the top 4 spots in February for instance.

Signs of progress is getting the team to play cohesive football with a reasonably obvious style to how we move the ball and players around the pitch. Its finishing games and being able to say "we outplayed the opposition today" regardless of the result for most of our games.

Its signs that suggest the manager is getting buy in from the players and that they are working for each other and the team.
 
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For anyone interested, tonight our kids are playing in the FA Youth Cup final...in front of over 67k fans in OT!

Free to watch on the FA Player from within the UK FA Player

Kickoff is 19:30
 
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