This is getting ridiculous (energy prices)

Soldato
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Kinda coincidental that octopus just made a token 1M loss last year (and 53M in previous year) .. as long as they are not protesting about windfall taxes
Octopus’s financial robustness and outstanding operational capabilities have allowed its UK energy retail business to grow dramatically whilst maintaining service standards at close to breakeven. While the UK retail business posted a headline loss of £85 million, after stripping out customer acquisition costs and exceptionals, the business delivered a loss of £1 million on a revenue of £1.9 billion (-0.05% margin).


I think the SC cost impact is being exaggerated. ....
No, more succintly than earlier graph - lower users penalised for standing charge percentage - the lowest 25% households now < 5 units a day, 1800pa

52078553697_be8e98901a_z_d.jpg

 
Soldato
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For me the interest in electric heating comes from the fact that there are ways to generate your own electricity, as well as take advantage of the fact that electricity prices change depending on peak and i can store electricity when cheap to use it when dear.......... it isnt possible to generate gas yourself however.

yeah i know the poorest cant do it at the moment, but those who can afford it should think about it imo.
It's not only the 'poorest' that can't afford to do it. I would guess someone has to be at the wealthier end of the spectrum for that sort of change.
 
Caporegime
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I lived in a flat in 2006 with electric heating and water. Bills were big back then.

Standing charge is £250 a year on the energy cap even after the increases. People pay more on Netflix and tv license
 
Soldato
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It's not only the 'poorest' that can't afford to do it. I would guess someone has to be at the wealthier end of the spectrum for that sort of change.
it is coming down pretty quickly....... i am not loaded... but not skint either.... my 15x350w solar panels with bird proofing and 7kw battery cost £8500 all in. add that on to your mortgage it wont make a huge difference in payments but it will save you money imo...... my system has been going now for just over 10 months and (opens app) in that time i have generate 3132KWh and thanks to the battery only 728kwh was sent to the grid (to which i am paid 4p kw/h)

add to that half of what i have had to import has been able to be off peak electrictiy that i dump into a battery. I like to think of the £8500 an investment rather than an expense (man maths perhaps)

yes i know not everyone can afford it at the moment, but it will only get cheaper....... esp the batteries as there will be loads of old batteries from cold electric cars which need to be gotten rid of somehow.
 
Soldato
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A few weeks ago, there was a story of a lady going on the bus all day to keep warm. I went on a bus two weeks ago for a hospital appt - the first bus journey this year. I can tell you its cold on the bus as windows are open to promote fresh air coming into the bus.

I think the story is a load of claptrap
You can be surprised how cold some homes can get. A bus may be colder than many people's homes, I know people who want their home so hot they have heating on before summer has ended. But imagine if you have drafty single glazed windows, no heating on at all, no insulation. Also not all buses have their windows open, my elder sister recently moaned about it, as she has to open them because of covid risk and they always closed when she gets on.
 
Soldato
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when i was a kid i remember havign to scrape ice off the inside of our windows...... that was before central heading and my dad would build the fire whilst i scraped the ice off the windows.

i dont think anyone wants to go back to those times.......... but a lot of people do waste energy by heating rooms they dont use.
 
Soldato
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There's a poll on Sky this morning where one in four people are now skipping meals, I doubt spending 8.5k on solar is an option.
 
Soldato
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Draughtproofing is a big one especially in old council houses like mine. I will be getting our windows done at some point but getting our roof replaced helped a lot (no loft as attic conversion) but even keeping doors closed can help trap that heat in.
I actually looked at the government schemes available to tenants. I dont think I qualify due to income but looked anyway.

First thing of interest is that new boilers are only offered if you dont already have central heating, so people with old inefficient boilers tough luck. Given my recent discovery 80% of my gas bill is there just so I can use gas, (not actual usage), this is more important than can be realised. Most important for low gas users.
Second thing was there is nothing for replacing windows, I know in my home, the draft pretty much all comes from my old wooden window frames. The windows are literally falling apart. When its windy outside (rare in my city, but was in march), the curtains will be away from the window with the draft lifting and pushing them away. Standing next to my front door you can feel it just standing there.
Wall insulation exterior/interior is offered, but surely this has much lower effect than fixing old drafty windows.
Loft insulation is offered, only relevant to people who have a loft.
Storage heaters with extended keep time are also offered. I assume only eligible if you already have storage heaters or are not suitable for central heating.

EDF offer a subsidised replacement boiler for their customers though.
 
Soldato
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For me the interest in electric heating comes from the fact that there are ways to generate your own electricity, as well as take advantage of the fact that electricity prices change depending on peak and i can store electricity when cheap to use it when dear.......... it isnt possible to generate gas yourself however.
Exactly this ! ...
...and once the country reliance on generating electricity using gas moves away the electricity price will drop. Just need to get through these 3-4 years before that happens.(Probably longer if Nuclear is required for this to happen)
 
Soldato
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There's a poll on Sky this morning where one in four people are now skipping meals, I doubt spending 8.5k on solar is an option.
Dont get me wrong I know things are bad, but I refuse to believe that is representative. 1 in 4 people are not having to skip meals imo.

but again I am not saying everyone can do it, only that those who can should....... Take smoking.... a person smoking 20 a day is paying over £4000 a year on fags.

maybe 20 a day is excessive (tho it is what both of my parents were on before quitting) but even so even on 10 a day that is still £2000 a year, and whilst many of us may be skint, i still see people queued out of the door sometimes at costa coffee.......

i can afford a solar system, but at the same time i cant jusify the expense of those prices for coffee and instead use aldi instant.
 
Associate
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My leccy bill just jumped to £197 PM

fek that it's tripled. and I have solar panels although not in the most optimum position.
 
Soldato
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wont happen over night but as gas boilers pack up they will need to be replaced one way or another any way..... the future is electric imo, at some point the most hard up will likely have to be given it from the government. a few years back near my parents a load of people had double glazing fitted for next to nothing. the same could happen there.

will be expensive for the country but what is the alternative? gas is on its way out - or it needs to be if we are going to get even close to our CO2 emission targets.

edit and yes a lot of these upgrades take time to pay for themselves.... but surely it will add onto the value of your home as well?. i know if i were looking to buy now, stuff like solar and decent insulation would absolutely be on my radar as things to look for.

Stuff like this always starts with the wealthy, then makes it down to the average people before then just being the normal for everyone. I know i would not buy a house without double glazing for instance (not unless it was bargain basement prices at least with a view to gutting and redoing)
I'm not going go down the rabbit hole of if the future of home heating is electric or hydrogen.
But how feasible is it for the government to subsidise upgrading the homes of a significant majority of the population? I quite fancied the idea of a heat pump and it is technology that has been around for a long time. However It is still quite expensive and not all homes have an optimal location for installing the external components of the heat pump. This doesn't even touch on the upgrades that need to be made to the house itself to ensure it is heat tight, so the heat pump works properly. There are also issues with the government cocking up the install and leaving people with a ****** end product. Prices are still too high for an all electric future.

Regarding the investment into the price of the house. There is no gurantee that it will increase the price of your home or that any increase is a tangible/worthwhile amount. It really depends on the buyer and everyone has their priorities. You may think that your upgrades add £XXXX to the value of your home; a buyer may come along and decide they don't care about it.
 
Soldato
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I have been talked out of heat pumps by my plumber for now***..... Not done enough research of them myself to be sure one way or the other (and not going to yet, for better or for worse i have a gas combi which i wont replace till it needs replacing) but he definitely said dont bother for an average home. I will look into it much more when i need to replace my boiler. i doubt i will go gas however.

his logic was get your insulation right, and you can heat your house well enough using other cheaper ways even if based on electric.

as for the buyer not caring about solar on my home, well then i guess they can save their money by buying a different home without solar then....... imo enough people would be interested in the idea of am almost zero electricity bill for 8 months of the year that i would have no trouble sellign if i had to.

hydrogen is exciting for storage........... (i see zero point making it if using carbon based fuel for electricity generation) but as a way of storing excess wind or solar electricity, making clean hydrogen seems a no brainer..... how that gets used however....... I am not an engineer but it may make more sense to use that in generating electricity rather than piping it to homes some how.

Also i dont personally see much future in hydrogen powering cars........ happy to be proven wrong, but to me it makes more sense in larger vehicles like trains, ships and planes..... maybe lorries as well.

totall off the wall thinking but for local air travel it could be used for blimps as well....... i could defintely imagine getting a blimp from Cambridge to manchester or what ever. (maybe not hydrogen in the balloon but hydrogen fuel for the propellors) but this is probably derailing a bit now.


*** I have a mate who heats his pool using one and he swears by it... I doubt i would ever afford a pool so not something i need to look at
 
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Soldato
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when i was a kid i remember havign to scrape ice off the inside of our windows...... that was before central heading and my dad would build the fire whilst i scraped the ice off the windows.

i dont think anyone wants to go back to those times.......... but a lot of people do waste energy by heating rooms they dont use.

I grew up in a big old house in Scotland with draughty sash windows and open fires, and this sounds familiar! I wouldn't mind too much personally - happy to stick on a few extra layers - but I don't think the other half would be too happy (she gets cold wrapped in a blanket when it's 20c inside!) :p
 
Soldato
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I was wondering when i said that, I was beginning to think I had a Tyler Durden.
going on todays prices 25p tho is 3.5kw/h in off peak electricity per day which in electric storage heaters would help a lot. also for maybe 6 months of the year when you dont need heating then that is zero heating at all, so then that allows another 3.5kwh per day for the 6 months you DO need heating. (price from current octopus go off peak) then add to that that gas isnt free either so you still need to pay for that as well.
then add to that £80 a year saving off servicing you gas boiler.
 
Soldato
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I dont think anyone can hold a candle to Octopus Go or Go Faster at the moment.... ...... *IF you can store electricity off peak and then use it on peak*. (7.5p kw/h for 4 hrs a night or 8.25p for 5 hrs off peak)
Their on peak prices are above the price cap however so it is vital to minimise your on peak usage. You absolutely do not need solar to get a house battery and everyone can benefit from a battery if you have off peak electricity.

(however I have heard rumours they have started asking for copies of V5s to prove you have an electric car. There was no such request when i signed up)

I really want an electric car but cant afford a new one, and the 2nd hand ones i can afford do not have the range i want. :(
 
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fez

fez

Soldato
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Dont get me wrong I know things are bad, but I refuse to believe that is representative. 1 in 4 people are not having to skip meals imo.

Thats because its complete BS. Who did they ask? Where did they ask? I bet if you took a survey of the people who used to watch daytime Jeremy Kyle you would get some ******* awful statistics.

We need to help people when they are in genuine need but we also need to educate people on budgeting when they are just awful with money. We shouldn't be in this position and I'm not absolving the government of their massive part in the current mess but far too many people **** money up the wall on stuff and then claim poverty.
 
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