Today's mass shooting in the US

Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2007
Posts
7,628
Location
London, UK
I think the ISIS comparisons are kinda like comparing the behavior of Russian troops in Ukraine with say rather more isolated bad incidents of British troops in Northern Ireland or US troops in Afghanistan, it's rather superficial and at a completely different scale. I mean the baseline/regular beliefs in countries where ISIS became popular are pretty ****ed up by western standards let alone the extremist ones!

As for mainstream media like Fox news etc.. that would be like blaming CNN for the black guy who decided to drive his truck at a load of white people, this guy was influenced by more than Tucker Carlson - rather it was the worst of 4Chan, /pol/ etc. he apparently blames Jews for non-white immigration or something - that's not the sort of thing you'd get from US evening news etc..

No its not on US evening news but the "role" of Jews in the Great Replacement is well known in these circles and Tucker does like to use "replacement" rhetoric in his shows. It is also part of QAnon which is another not so fringe (anymore) movement on the right wing of US politics. Funny that much of the lunacy on 4Chan has seeped its way into the mainstream of US politics now.

No one is saying Fox News is to blame for the growing divide and extremism in US politics but it has and is playing its part.

The ISIS comparison works better for the evangelical Christianity in the US which is gaining power, especially now with its control of the SC.
 
Soldato
Joined
17 Jan 2016
Posts
6,730
I can't speak on previous mass shootings. But in recent years I've noticed a general mind set of people seeing themselves as victims of circumstance, and instead of doing something contructive to change things they resort to this self defeating and most horrific actions.

If this guy didn't like didn't like what he perceived to be an unsafe neighbourhood and wanted to make things better he should have either engaged in the political process or started his own community initiative. But most people don't want to put any effort in and would rather sit back and blame everyone else, and eventually there is always some idiot that comes along willing to take things one step further.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KIA
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
55,644
The ISIS comparison works better for the evangelical Christianity in the US which is gaining power, especially now with its control of the SC.

No that's even worse, I mean this guy actually shot a load of people so at least there is something to compare, whereas people simply wanting to ban abortions or gay marriage aren't really all that comparable at all.
 
  • Like
Reactions: KIA
Caporegime
Joined
18 Mar 2008
Posts
29,563
Both want a theocracy and want to destroy anything that gets in the way of that goal.

We're talking about dominionists here, not some kindly god-fearing folk who care about charity and being good neighbours regardless of their beliefs.
 
Last edited:
Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2003
Posts
3,882
No its not on US evening news but the "role" of Jews in the Great Replacement is well known in these circles and Tucker does like to use "replacement" rhetoric in his shows. It is also part of QAnon which is another not so fringe (anymore) movement on the right wing of US politics. Funny that much of the lunacy on 4Chan has seeped its way into the mainstream of US politics now.

No one is saying Fox News is to blame for the growing divide and extremism in US politics but it has and is playing its part.

The ISIS comparison works better for the evangelical Christianity in the US which is gaining power, especially now with its control of the SC.
Why not compare it to Islam instead of ISIS?
 
Soldato
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Posts
5,741
Why not compare it to Islam instead of ISIS?
Because ISIS doesnt represent all Muslims, just as people like you don't represent me just because of some shared colour, ethnicity, religious viewpoint or nationality. I abhor your values, but I'm pretty sure we share one of those classifications I mentioned.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2007
Posts
7,628
Location
London, UK
No that's even worse, I mean this guy actually shot a load of people so at least there is something to compare, whereas people simply wanting to ban abortions or gay marriage aren't really all that comparable at all.

It isn't about the brutality of his actions. ISIS is trying to create a Islamic califate, a theocracy of Islamic Fundamentalism with one of its aims to bring on end times, the Islamic version of the apocalypse. The Christian Evangelical movement in the US wants a theocracy but a Christian one that pretends to be a constitutional republic, at least for a while. After all the SC gets to decide what is and isn't constitutional and now they have a majority on the SC. Abortion and gay marriage is likely just the start. There is also a end times/Rapture aim in American Evangelicalism. If they manage to get a super majority by taking another liberal seat or Roberts seat then they will have free reign to interpret the constitution in any ways they wish. There is no appeal of SC decisions and the GOP won't do a thing to reign them in.
 
Soldato
Joined
12 Dec 2003
Posts
10,211
Location
Berkshire
America is determined to tear itself apart.

Pretty sad to see.

RIP to all those innocent bystanders mentioned in this thread.
 
Soldato
Joined
18 Feb 2003
Posts
3,882
Because ISIS doesnt represent all Muslims, just as people like you don't represent me just because of some shared colour, ethnicity, religious viewpoint or nationality. I abhor your values, but I'm pretty sure we share one of those classifications I mentioned.
I'll wait for a decent response from the person I quoted.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
55,644
It isn't about the brutality of his actions. ISIS is trying to create a Islamic califate, a theocracy of Islamic Fundamentalism with one of its aims to bring on end times, the Islamic version of the apocalypse. The Christian Evangelical movement in the US wants a theocracy but a Christian one that pretends to be a constitutional republic, at least for a while. After all the SC gets to decide what is and isn't constitutional and now they have a majority on the SC. Abortion and gay marriage is likely just the start. There is also a end times/Rapture aim in American Evangelicalism. If they manage to get a super majority by taking another liberal seat or Roberts seat then they will have free reign to interpret the constitution in any ways they wish. There is no appeal of SC decisions and the GOP won't do a thing to reign them in.
So you could compare to any number of regular muslim countries then, the ISIS comparison is spurious and hyperbolic.

I mean would you say the Muslim community worldwide is, on average, basically like ISIS?
The UAE regime? Basically ISIS?

It’s complete hyperbole and not particularly useful.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2007
Posts
7,628
Location
London, UK
So you could compare to any number of regular muslim countries then, the ISIS comparison is spurious and hyperbolic.

I mean would you say the Muslim community worldwide is, on average, basically like ISIS?
The UAE regime? Basically ISIS?

It’s complete hyperbole and not particularly useful.

That is your opinion dowie and you are entitled to it but it isn't the same because a minority is imposing their strict beliefs on the majority. The majority in ISIS areas didn't want to live under ISIS, it was forced upon them. So again it isn't the same at all. You want to go another round, I know you do because you have to.
 
Caporegime
Joined
29 Jan 2008
Posts
55,644
That is your opinion dowie and you are entitled to it but it isn't the same because a minority is imposing their strict beliefs on the majority. The majority in ISIS areas didn't want to live under ISIS, it was forced upon them. So again it isn't the same at all. You want to go another round, I know you do because you have to.

Conservative Christians are like conservative Muslims is a pretty easy defensible and way more appropriate comparison to make.

Conservative Christians are like ISIS but conservative Muslims aren't because [insert Colonel_Klinck's mental gymnastics] is just bizarre

This shooter was quite clearly inspired by 4Chan /pol/ type stuff. He's no more representative of the typical US conservative Christian type than the typical Muslim is of the 911 attackers.
 
Last edited:
Associate
Joined
21 Jan 2010
Posts
1,803
It isn't about the brutality of his actions. ISIS is trying to create a Islamic califate, a theocracy of Islamic Fundamentalism with one of its aims to bring on end times, the Islamic version of the apocalypse. The Christian Evangelical movement in the US wants a theocracy but a Christian one that pretends to be a constitutional republic, at least for a while. After all the SC gets to decide what is and isn't constitutional and now they have a majority on the SC. Abortion and gay marriage is likely just the start. There is also a end times/Rapture aim in American Evangelicalism. If they manage to get a super majority by taking another liberal seat or Roberts seat then they will have free reign to interpret the constitution in any ways they wish. There is no appeal of SC decisions and the GOP won't do a thing to reign them in.

Comparing isis to evangelicals is pretty poor, really. It's a real stretch on your part.

Evangelicals don't advocate the murder and enslavement of other religions, or the murder of other sects.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2007
Posts
7,628
Location
London, UK
Comparing isis to evangelicals is pretty poor, really. It's a real stretch on your part.

Evangelicals don't advocate the murder and enslavement of other religions, or the murder of other sects.

I did say right at the beginning that they aren't the same in their brutality, that isn't the comparison. They are imposing their religious beliefs on the majority when they are in the minority with the end game a theocracy. They now control a 1/3 of the US government for perhaps the next 15 years at least when they only make up 30-35% of the population. Are they as dangerous as ISIS, obviously not. They are dangerous to world order in that they are creating greater political division and likely the politics in the country we all look to as the leader of the free world.
 
Soldato
Joined
3 Oct 2007
Posts
7,628
Location
London, UK
Conservative Christians are like conservative Muslims is a pretty easy defensible and way more appropriate comparison to make.

Conservative Christians are like ISIS but conservative Muslims aren't because [insert Colonel_Klinck's mental gymnastics] is just bizarre

This shooter was quite clearly inspired by 4Chan /pol/ type stuff. He's no more representative of the typical US conservative Christian type than the typical Muslim is of the 911 attackers.

The shooter is a white supremacist who believes in the Great Replacement. Something that has been moving more into conservative politics. When the No3 in Republican leadership in the House is using social media to push this theory there is clearly a problem.

 
Soldato
Joined
13 May 2003
Posts
7,939
I did say right at the beginning that they aren't the same in their brutality, that isn't the comparison. They are imposing their religious beliefs on the majority when they are in the minority with the end game a theocracy. They now control a 1/3 of the US government for perhaps the next 15 years at least when they only make up 30-35% of the population. Are they as dangerous as ISIS, obviously not. They are dangerous to world order in that they are creating greater political division and likely the politics in the country we all look to as the leader of the free world.

Hyperbole much.
I suppose it's not dogma that some people think white people are born racist and bear the original sin of their ancestors. Or that a bit of paper written by believers over comes objective fact when a man becomes a woman with a certificate.

Let's face it nutterism exists on both sides of the political spectrum in fairly equal quantities.
 
Associate
Joined
21 Jan 2010
Posts
1,803
I did say right at the beginning that they aren't the same in their brutality, that isn't the comparison. They are imposing their religious beliefs on the majority when they are in the minority with the end game a theocracy. They now control a 1/3 of the US government for perhaps the next 15 years at least when they only make up 30-35% of the population. Are they as dangerous as ISIS, obviously not. They are dangerous to world order in that they are creating greater political division and likely the politics in the country we all look to as the leader of the free world.

It's a poor comparison.

If you'd compared them to devout jews, Muslims or Hindus, no-one would have had much of an issue with that.

Instead, you picked a needlessly controversial comparator to isis.

Is there any evidence this shooter was an evangelical, rather than some sort of racist scumbag?
 
Top Bottom