Today's mass shooting in the US

Don
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This cartoon - once again - seems appropriate:

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Soldato
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There's been 27 separate school shootings so far this year in the US, with 140 dead.

That only includes incidents where somebody other than the shooter died before anybody here claims suicides are the primary cause.

Another frightening statistic I just saw on a BBC video is that 4.6 million children in the USA have access to an unsecured firearm and 75% of those children know where it is kept.

27 geez its a terrible thing to read about, unsecured firearms access its just asking for trouble.
very sad.
 
Soldato
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I listened to part of Biden's speech on Radio 4 this morning and thought it was good. There's stuff about the guy I don't like about the guy, but I wish him the best in dealing with this problem.

Apparently 4000 children a year die in gun related incidents each year in the US and this is their 27th school shooting this year. 45,000 deaths a year related to fire arms. Madness, but their madness.


edit: probably dementia I'm reliably informed.
 
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Soldato
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Just as a thought, have they looked at the chemicals and **** that they ingest in their diets and what the long term effects on stuff like that are, they'd probably rather do that than tighten up on the guns thing...

The USA is broken but is so arrogant to see it needs to change..
 
Soldato
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Firstly most western countries survive just great with strict gun controls. But secondly the intention of US citizens carrying weapons to protect them against a tyrannical government was brought in when citizens had muskets and the government had muskets.

And their laws about freedom of speech date from the time of town criers, limited literacy, and early printing presses. No radio, no TV, no internet, not even typewriters.

Today their citizens have pistols, rifles and automatic weapons, while the government has the most powerful military on the planet. There is no way citizens could stand up to a tyrannical government today.

The peoples of Vietnam and Afghanistan would like a few words with you. You don't take on the US military in set piece battles but piece by piece. You are also forgetting that very many American civilians have a military background.

There is a far simpler solution than disarming the American population: make sure teachers and school staff have guns. It works in Israel.
 
Caporegime
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There is a far simpler solution than disarming the American population: make sure teachers and school staff have guns. It works in Israel.

Yeah, because teachers never have mental breakdowns or lose their temper with children.

I am baffled when people advocate this as a solution. The shooter in question had body armor.

Should the teachers and school staff wear body armor all day as well?

Edit: Also Israel has much more stringent gun laws, for example "self defense" is not a good enough reason to own one.

The applicant for a firearms license must be a citizen or permanent resident of Israel, who has lived in Israel for the past three years or had completed his national / military service. A person who has served in IDF can receive a firearms license in Israel as of the age of 18. Anyone who has served in the National Service may receive a license starting at the age of 21. Someone who has never served can only receive weapon license after reaching the age of 27. The applicant must be fluent enough in Hebrew to understand instructions and pass an interview.

Anyone requesting a permit to carry a weapon must attach a health declaration from a physician to the application. Finally, the applicant must undergo the required weapons training.
 
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B&W

B&W

Soldato
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Perhaps the parents of these children that have been shot need to go on a mass shooting at these NRA rallies

And why shouldn't they, if they have lost what's dearest to them then I wouldn't be surprised if this happened in the future.

It's a endless cycle.
 
Associate
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Obama did try quite hard after Sandy Hook but was thwarted at every avenue for any change. I guess the lives of primary school age kids pales into insignificance if you really, really like guns.
 
Soldato
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Nothing will change until Americans love their children more than they love their firearms.

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The problem with this, as ever, seems to be Americans unable to differentiate between "changing gun laws" and "taking away our guns entirely".

I get that their culture places a huge emphasis on being able to arm themselves to defend their freedom. But it boggles my mind that some seem to see it as all or nothing, and have this knee-jerk 'we must have absolutely unfettered access to guns, or we are living under tyranny' response whenever someone suggests, perhaps, that it might be a good idea to check that people buying guns are at least competent and of sound mind. That's not a call for banning guns outright, so why is the response always assuming that?

Surely that's not much different to requiring that every citizen who wishes to get behind the wheel of a car must have a driver's licence to prove a level of training and competency. Is there a similar level of objection to that process? Are there sectors of American society who believe that absolutely anyone should be able to get into a car and drive it wherever, without any sort of government mandated approval, in the name of freedom?
 
Soldato
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A lot of countries have millions of guns and the same thing doesn't happen, also a lot of these countries don't have better mental health care than America. For example somewhere India has 71m guns in civilian possession, a lot less per capita but still the access is there, yet I can't remember hearing of a mass shooting at a school in India. At this point it seems to be kind of a cultural thing with disturbed kids in America imitating previous school shooters. It's very bizarre.
 
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Soldato
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There is a far simpler solution than disarming the American population: make sure teachers and school staff have guns. It works in Israel.

Teachers aren't armed in Israel, they do have an armed guard at the entrance but that's it.

"Israeli security experts also say that gun violence is rare in Israel because privately held guns are so rare. According to data from Israel’s Ministry of Internal Security, which registers all gun owners, about 260,000 Israelis, or about 3.5 percent of the population, have permits to carry firearms. Half of the permit holders are private citizens, and the others work for security firms."

A lot of countries have millions of guns and the same thing doesn't happen, also a lot of these countries don't have better mental health care than America For example somewhere India has 71m guns in civilian possession, a lot less per capita but still the access is there, yet I can't remember hearing of a mass shooting at a school in India. At this point it seems to be kind of a cultural thing with disturbed kids in America imitating previous school shooters. It's very bizarre.

In a country of 1.4 billion that's only a 5.3% ownership rate, assuming that each person who owns a gun only owns one. Hell, it's 4.6% here. When the ownership rate is so low they're generally going to be owned by people that actually need them and store them properly.

In America, there are 1.2 guns per person. That's 23x more guns per capita than in India. It's not comparable.
 
Caporegime
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The peoples of Vietnam and Afghanistan would like a few words with you. You don't take on the US military in set piece battles but piece by piece. You are also forgetting that very many American civilians have a military background.

The resistance in Vietnam and Afghanistan was led by trained militia groups and soldiers—most of them professional—well equipped with a modern arsenal provided by friendly nations.

They were fighting opponents who were not committed to total war, and who never committed more than a token force to the battlefield. They never faced a full scale conventional army at full strength. IIRC, America's combat strength in Vietnam never exceeded 60,000, and those troops were spread across the entire country.

There has never been a single case of American citizens taking up arms against their own government and successfully defeating the US military. It is literally impossible, they would be obliterated in minutes.

There is a far simpler solution than disarming the American population: make sure teachers and school staff have guns.

Hilarious nonsense, a false dichotomy, and a big fat straw man.

It works in Israel.

False.
 
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Associate
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Birmingham
Just seen the news.... can't add expletives here. Just why...why do these things happen in America.

My own kids are 4 and 6, I can't imagine what the families are currently going through. A friend of mine recently lost her sister at aged 20, at least she had some form of life and died doing what she loved, although still very hard to comprehend (a freak accident on a horse). These kids didn't even get that opportunity.

My thoughts are with their families.
 
Soldato
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Genius, make sure troubled kids have easy access to firearms!

It's completely mental you can legally acquire an arsenal of weapons designed for killing people (as opposed to target sport and hunting) at 18.....but you can't risk the dangers of having a sip of beer until you're 21.

Sometimes I've thought about moving to the US as there's a lot that appeals....but the stuff that doesn't appeal is so utterly mental it's not even worth considering.
My Dad has lived in the States since my teens and early on I was looking forward to going to live with him as growing up watching stuff like Starksy and Hutch and the Bionic Man etc (those of a certain age will know what I'm referring to) made all things American seem so cool. Over the years I've had many opportunities to move there but for a few reasons (including the gun culture) I've decided to stay here.

When I was there recently I took one photo that typified one of the stark cultural differences between here and there; I was on my way to Denny's (fast food restaurant) to get my arteries clogged and right next door there was a massive gun shop, with massive neon lights to match.

There is just so much '$' in the gun industry so that even 'tame' gun laws like increasing the age to the same as drinking, or having background checks don't make it past the Senate when apparently 90% of the population are in favour.

The land of Starksy and Hutch has some fundamental issues that I will gladly stay well clear of.
 
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