Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

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As you know this is a pretty popular topic right now, I just wanted to share my thoughts which are not exactly main-stream at the moment, and see what you think... Obviously I am ready to get poo thrown at me :D as per GD rule.

At first I was very supportive of protesters, it seemed as right thing... People trying to get rid of a Soviet style dictator who is actually just a puppet to Russia, in hopes of achieving better living conditions.

But the more I started reading into it, more I became disappointed.... You could say that the reason why this all started is because Yanukovich turned down the EU association deal... At the time I thought this is because his warlords in Russia told him that he cant.

But as I took closer look at the EU deal and what effects it would have on Ukraine, in few short words... It would completely destroy Ukraine`s industry... All their factories are non EU compliant, money needed to modernize such factories are just at silly numbers....

Especially when manufacturers such as Antonov-aircrafts keep afloat only because Russia orders them.... With EU association, Russia will no longer buy those airplanes due to increased price and also for political reasons.

So you might say well Antonov will be given a loan to modernize themselves and all will be dandy, but in reality there is no way that they will ever be able to compete with Airbus in France, it is just impossible. They simply will not be able to pay the loan back which they took out for modernization.

Mining industry will also be completely dismantled due to same reasons it happened in UK under Thatcher, with so many regulations and limits it is just cheaper to buy coal from 3rd world country than produce themselves.

Now about the Nuclear power stations currently in Ukraine, as I understand they will also be closed down, as it happened with Lithuania.... Because those Nuclear stations are Soviet type which do not meet requirements of safety by EU...

Most likely EU will force Ukraine to build new nuclear stations which are EU compliant or make them all green with turbines and solar panels.

I had a read about Lithuania`s Nuclear Power Plant, basically after shutting it down EU proposed a new one will be built but at a price of 5 billion, with builders being sub-contracted from EU and USA and basically none of Baltic countries will even take part in the build, therefore local building companies will not benefit from this at all, the station will also be operated by outsiders.

Moreover, Russians nearby are building a EU compliant Nuclear station for the half of the price, and if you factor in the money they will have returned due to their own people working on the project we are talking at serious difference.

So what we did, is shut down a working Nuclear station which employed thousands of local people and produced electricity at pennies due to the fact that it was left for FREE by Soviets... And now forcing them to build new one for 5 billion Euros, with no locals working there and since they cant afford such expense they will now take out massive loans and pay huge % on them.

Moreover, the new nuclear station will not even be competitive since the price per megawatt has gone up drastically compared to the old one and that is the main reason why Russians built their own one nearby.

This is pretty much the same scenario Ukraine will see from EU, across all of their industries.


Also, it seems the Ukranians who are protesting believe that they will be Accepted into EU, they seem not to understand the difference between membership and assosiation, most think as soon they will sign it they will be able to go work to any place in EU.

Ukraine population is 46 million, I can imagine UK will quit EU next day if they are allowed full membership.

I had a look at at the protesters and their actions, they are extremely nationalistic and hate Russians greatly, this is a problem where around 40% of population consider themselves ethnic Russians. On the square, they waved flags of their Nazi legions of the ww2 and held portraits of Bendera the guy whos squad used to participate in ethnic cleansing of Ukraine from Russians and Polish people, there are horrific images online, they only targetted women and children and ran away at first sight of soviets. It is said that even most brutal Waffen-ss members were horrified by the methods of those Ukrainians.

We see those individuals hailed and celebrated in the square.

I also had a look at the opposition speeches in the square and nearly all of them were booed at, the only people they cheered for were the ultra nationalistic party members who held guns and called for ethnic cleansing of Ukraine and deportation of Russian speaking population.

In the end, I have split feelings... It is great that they got rid of a corrupt puppet, but it seems that now they have given way to politicians with nazi
ideologies, their parliament pretty much elected themselves and all people in key positions are with very nationalistic views.

They will now sign the EU deal no matter what, we might as well even force them to became our slaves, they will still sign it.... No one cared that in reality the Russian deal was a much better proposition, they just want to be part of EU and dont care what effects it will have on them, they seem to have this idea that EU is a wonder-place where everything is just amazing, or they simply dont care what will happen to them just as long as they get to stick it up to Russia... It is funny that at the moment UK wants to leave due to restrictions and Greece thinks it will be able to revive economy much better and faster if they left, they also seem to forget that we will simply not accept a country which is so poor and with such massive population.

Anyway rant over, throw poo at me and use the "they now have freeedom" expression :D
 
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Literally tl;dr. Cool story etc Ukraine etc :D This is all over the news at the moment, and I have no idea.. Can you summarize?
 
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Literally tl;dr. Cool story etc Ukraine etc :D This is all over the news at the moment, and I have no idea.. Can you summarize?

Yeah I had a look at my message and was like, yeah I cant even bother to re-read it myself...

So in short my opinion;

Its great that they ousted a stupid President, but it seems that they have given way to ultra nationalists who have Nazi tendencies and already showed it in the square by waving flags of Nazis and cheering for calls of ethnic cleansing of Ukraine from Russians, Russians make up something around 40% of Ukraine population.

Ukranians seem to not understand that no one offered to join EU, they think that if they sign the deal they will be able to work in EU.

Ukranians also dont seem to realize that the deal that was offered to them will ruin whole countries industry. While the Russian deal has seemed to be economically a lot more viable, but they seem to have this belief that once they join EU, they will live like Germany or UK... Completely dispersing countries like Portugal,Greece,Baltics saying that they will never be like them.

Currently, very anti-Russian and Nationalistic people are getting into power in Ukraine, they simply openly discriminate against Russian population, they are talking about banning Russian language completely and removing and banning all things reminding them of Russia or Soviet Union, while Nazi flag and insignia are allowed..... They see Nazis as liberators.

Overall it seems we supporting radicals once again, just like we do in Syria... I wonder how Germany feels about proposition of Ukraine government to teach kids that Nazis were pretty much the good guys and those who carried out ethnic cleansing were also good people fighting for freedom. This isnt being made right now, but the people who are getting into power right now are from very radical parties and they talked about this a lot, but been dismissed as idiots before.
 
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v0n

v0n

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To summarize OP how I read it:

Revolution in Kiev is a protest against democratically elected pro Russian/anti EU president who still appears to have a support of majority of the electorate.

Most of Ukrainians outside of Kiev (keep in mind 40% of Ukrainians consider themselves Russian) support president who does not want to comply with EU rules for trading and prefers the nation to stay non compliant with last century Russian technology and relations.

The protestants in Kiev are mixed bunch that mostly do not agree with each other and have no clearly defined program or leader. Many of them wave red and black "Bandera" flags, the colours of ultra nationalist partisan UPA groups that cooperated with Waffen SS during WWII and murdered and torched countless Polish and Jewish villages.

What to us might look like Ukrainian Spring, may in fact be another Yugoslavia, where between potentially froth mouthed, ruthless commie leftie ruler and potentially froth mouthed, aggressive pro-nazi hit squad behind barricade, it is quite probable that in very near future only blue helmets in white tanks will find right balance for the common folk lost in the middle of it all.
 
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To summarize OP how I read it:

Revolution in Kiev is a protest against democratically elected pro Russian/anti EU president who still appears to have a support of majority of the electorate.

Most of Ukrainians outside of Kiev (keep in mind 40% of Ukrainians consider themselves Russian) support president who does not want to comply with EU rules for trading and prefers the nation to stay non compliant with last century Russian technology and relations.

The protestants in Kiev are mixed bunch that mostly does not agree with each other and have no clearly defined program or leader. Many of them wave black "Bandera" flags, the colours of ultra nationalist partisan UPA groups that cooperated with Waffen SS during WWII and murdered and torched countless Polish and Jewish villages.

What to us might look like Ukrainian Spring, may in fact be another Yugoslavia, where between potentially froth mouthed, ruthless commie leftie ruler and potentially froth mouthed, aggressive pro-nazi hit squad behind barricade, it is quite probable that in very near future only blue helmets in white tanks will find right balance for the common folk lost in the middle of it all.

This is pretty amazing :D

But with one downside, the current President has no support what so ever... The Russians consider him as a wet-wipe and no longer have faith in him what so ever...

Russian population of Ukraine is afraid that anti-Russian government will be installed (it is already happening).

Moreover, most industry is located in the Pro-Russian side of Ukraine and they worry that with introduction of "new world" technology they will be out of jobs and with the government ideology that Russians must go, they are afraid there will be no support for them what so ever.
 
Soldato
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Hehe well done OP, you know the situation a bit better than 99.99% of western world. Ukraine is a sad case, it's between two powerful entities that compete, neither care for it very much but what else can an average bloke in Ukraine do but go on the streets if there's nothing else to do.

The people who want to side with the EU don't really care about economic prosperity, they're so blinded by the belief that it is Russia's fault for all their suffering that all they want is to side with EU. EU obviously does not want that basket case, we have enough trouble with PIGletS as it is.

It will be quite interesting who will emerge as the leader this time but if would have to bet money, I'd say next people in power will be as corrupt and will keep on stealing the cash just like all previous regimes had done, be they pro-EU (orange guys) or pro-ruski (yanukovych)
 
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where did you see that? :eek:

Nice :p I can take it seriously now!

In all honesty the country seems extremely messed up just now and it seems to be a lot to do with Russia trying to stop them getting close to the EU. Something about Russia trying to set up their own version of it with the Ukraine and some other countries if I remember.

Their people don't seem happy about this though so I understand why they want to do something about it when their government won't listen.
 
Soldato
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Nice :p I can take it seriously now!

In all honesty the country seems extremely messed up just now and it seems to be a lot to do with Russia trying to stop them getting close to the EU. Something about Russia trying to set up their own version of it with the Ukraine and some other countries if I remember.

Their people don't seem happy about this though so I understand why they want to do something about it when their government won't listen.

The whole point of OP post is that what you just said (which is normal opinion of average person outside Ukraine) is wrong.

Also there was supposed to be elections in 10months with observers from EU, so all this bloodshed and possible split could have been entirely avoided.
 
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Nice :p I can take it seriously now!

In all honesty the country seems extremely messed up just now and it seems to be a lot to do with Russia trying to stop them getting close to the EU. Something about Russia trying to set up their own version of it with the Ukraine and some other countries if I remember.

Their people don't seem happy about this though so I understand why they want to do something about it when their government won't listen.

See thats the idea western media is portraying :p

Those Ukrainians do not understand that no one offered them a place in EU and that signing this agreement will put ruin to their country due to harsh conditions offered in the contract.

Those who protest, simply do not care they are blaming Russia for everything, no one had a look at those agreements in detail.. Most are thinking they are being offered a EU membership, to them it doesnt even matter... They would side with whoever just to go against Russians even though it has no financial sense what so ever... Moreover it seems that everyone forgets whole eastern and southern Ukraine is Pro-Russian, a fact completely ignored.
 
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Why don't we fix our own country before we start helping Ukraine/Syria/Egypt/Turkey/Wherever else it's kicking off? :rolleyes:
 
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It all looks like a load of mindless brutality to me, which isn't a particular surprise I will admit.
 
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