Ukraine Invasion - Please do not post videos showing attacks/similar

[Devilman]

The first point. You will find that most professional serving personnel would not be interested in fighting with people forced against their will to fight. I dont know how a National service would run these days but the professional and national services would have to be seperate. I'm sure I have covered this topic before in this thread, but motivating current young service peronnel is hard enough as it is. Massive generalisation, however, the majority of this new generation coming through the grinder are just interested in doing as little as possible and picking up a paycheck. Its no longer a lifestyle, or a brotherhood, its a 9-5 with no loyalty or sense of service.


As for your last point, there is no denying that the mental robustness of current generation is lacking. For people with genuine mental health issues I have nothing but respect. However I witness it far far too much, Mental health is a "go to" get out cluase for the weak minded. Unfortunately this tars the people with genuine issues. Its difficult and a very fine line to tread.

I fail to see how putting young people that have been forced against their will into a separate unit or chain of command addresses the issue ?
Regarding the statement "Its no longer a lifestyle, or a brotherhood, its a 9-5 with no loyalty or sense of service." - This notion that people are *required* to serve some kind of allegiance to something, not through choice but through circumstance, is not far short of religious ideology and is noticeably derogatory in it's judgement of others. "no sense of loyalty" - do you know this for sure? can you quantify it? how do you know that people are not "loyal" anymore? It's just an attempt to make a derogatory faux moral judgement on people who do not with to do what *you think* they should do, or what people *used* to do in the past.

"mental robustness of the current generation is lacking" seems like yet another derogatory judgement on young people these days, implying that in the past people were "tougher" and "better" and that people now days "Just don't try / just don't bother". - This really is no different to the current "elite" (some could argue Tory) mentality that "poor people just don't try / are lazy / are stupid" always attempting to blame and belittle the potential victim, preferring to blame the symptom than address the cause. Life was very different 50 years ago, the world has changed, the pace of life has changed, I think if you plucked a bunch of 18-20yr olds from 1950's and dropped them in today's world they would not fair well.
While I do agree that "mental health issues" may be the current "go-to" for potential scammers etc.. - these people have always existed in society, from the huge spike that happened in "whiplash" claims from minor car shunts some years back and the age old "bad back" before that, it is unfair to tar all those who say they have mental health issues with the same brush by saying they are "weak minded" as a way to treat them as "other" or "different" and makes it much easier to continue an "us vs them" narrative, when you are still talking about a very small minority of the population as a whole.

Also... some people choose to be pacifists, what about them? should they be forced both against their will and their beliefs to complete national service and (at worst) kill or be killed?

*Edit* For fear of derailing the thread, perhaps we should leave this here

 

[steve45]

At the current pace Russias military capability will be rekt for decades to come if this war goes on for another 6 months

Thats the plan from what I gather. I genuinely think that Putin will be stubborn enough to allow it to happen.

 

[steve45]

I fail to see how putting young people that have been forced against their will into a separate unit or chain of command addresses the issue ?
Regarding the statement "Its no longer a lifestyle, or a brotherhood, its a 9-5 with no loyalty or sense of service." - This notion that people are *required* to serve some kind of allegiance to something, not through choice but through circumstance, is not far short of religious ideology and is noticeably derogatory in it's judgement of others. "no sense of loyalty" - do you know this for sure? can you quantify it? how do you know that people are not "loyal" anymore? It's just an attempt to make a derogatory faux moral judgement on people who do not with to do what *you think* they should do, or what people *used* to do in the past.

"mental robustness of the current generation is lacking" seems like yet another derogatory judgement on young people these days, implying that in the past people were "tougher" and "better" and that people now days "Just don't try / just don't bother". - This really is no different to the current "elite" (some could argue Tory) mentality that "poor people just don't try / are lazy / are stupid" always attempting to blame and belittle the potential victim, preferring to blame the symptom than address the cause. Life was very different 50 years ago, the world has changed, the pace of life has changed, I think if you plucked a bunch of 18-20yr olds from 1950's and dropped them in today's world they would not fair well.

My point is that National service may help our younger geneartion and our defence should we require it. But it is not compatible with our current armed forces. Working with Reserves is difficult enough, and they want to be there (Not a slight on the reserves, however the term "milage may vary" holds true there. I've worked with mega professional and complete wasters from the reserves... saying that I can say the same for the regs...

The second point I'm giving you my real world, lived experience. I'm not trying to be derogatory in any way, this is just the reality, as I say there are many exceptions to the rule however, generally this is the trend. I do infact believe that the older generations were tougher, or at least better at just cracing on where required, I think trhere has been some sort of lost ability to handle genuine hardship or a lowered tolerance to it. Life was different 10 years ago never mind 50. However, that dosnt mean we dont need mentally robust people. The world is changing fast and not in the direction it was last year. That old saying “Hard times create strong men. Strong men create good times. Good times create weak men. And, weak men create hard times.” rings so true today. These times are a turning point in society.

 

[SPG]

The UK needs some national service to get some backbone back. Instead of crying wolf due to mental health which every man and his dog has these days. It doesn't have to be military either. Ambulance service get drivers etc etc.

 

[*seven]

— Bloomberg (CET Time)

Spoiler: *Renault Sells Lada-Maker With Option to Buy It Back

Spoiler: *Less Russian Gas Expected to Flow Through Ukraine

UK MoD Update - 'Latest Defence Intelligence update on the situation in Ukraine - 16 May 2022'

https://twitter.com/DefenceHQ/status/1526071888329441282

Past 1hr:
*Russian Gas Nominations for Slovakia Increase - Operator Data
*Ukraine’s Kharkiv Region Governor: Ukrainian Troops Defending Kharkiv Reached State Border With Russia

*Russian Deputy Foreign Minister: Global Situation Will Change Radically After Swedish Decision to Join NATO — RIA
*Russian Deputy Foreign Minister: Finland and Sweden Joining NATO Is a Mistake With Far-Reaching Consequences — IFAX

*Lithuania’s Foreign Affairs Minister: Whole EU Being Held Hostage by One Member State Which Cannot Help EU Find Good Solution, Consensus on Sanction
*EU’s Borrell: Cannot Ensure Debate on Sanctions Unblocked Today Due to Some Strong Positions From Member States

 

[koolpc]

The UK needs some national service to get some backbone back. Instead of crying wolf due to mental health which every man and his dog has these days. It doesn't have to be military either. Ambulance service get drivers etc etc.

Get all the hoodies, drop outs etc etc enlisted i say.

 

[SPG]

Nope, EVERYONE.

 

[Hotwired]

National Service has to be an equal burden on everyone or it will lack dignity and be accordingly associated with people least able to dodge it.

South Korea is quite merciless with their national service demands on their men up to banning them from ever coming back if they hide in another country. There's currently a political debate about allowing valuable entertainers to dodge service on grounds of other contribution to society but it's not moving very fast due to fears of it being a slippery slope if they start allowing exemptions.

Mind you, they do have a huge exemption in place already. Just have to be female.

 

[Chris Wilson]

National Service has to be an equal burden on everyone or it will lack dignity and be accordingly associated with people least able to dodge it.

South Korea is quite merciless with their national service demands on their men up to banning them from ever coming back if they hide in another country. There's currently a political debate about allowing valuable entertainers to dodge service on grounds of other contribution to society but it's not moving very fast due to fears of it being a slippery slope if they start allowing exemptions.

Mind you, they do have a huge exemption in place already. Just have to be female.

Define "female". I'll get my coat...

 

[Freddie1980]

Sounds like script from a lowkey action movie.......

GPS receivers have been found taped to the dashboards of Russian jets downed in Ukraine, according to a report from Express. The Express received the information from Ben Wallace, United Kingdom defense secretary, who mentioned it in a speech at the National Army Museum.

The GPS receivers were found taped to the dashboards of Russian SU-34s because of “the poor quality of their own systems,” he said. It is unclear whether he was referring to the Russian GLONASS satellite navigation system or the navigation systems aboard the SU-34 jets, but most likely the latter. Lack of maintenance and modernization of Russian military equipment has been obvious since the beginning of Russia’s invasion of Ukraine.

Link

 

[Hotwired]

Define "female". I'll get my coat...

If you still have your balls you must do service and are given a lower grading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_personnel_in_the_South_Korean_military
Alternatively provide extensive proof of gender disorder and they might accept that.

 

[Mrwong]

As you know this is a pretty popular topic right now, I just wanted to share my thoughts which are not exactly main-stream at the moment, and see what you think... Obviously I am ready to get poo thrown at me as per GD rule.

At first I was very supportive of protesters, it seemed as right thing... People trying to get rid of a Soviet style dictator who is actually just a puppet to Russia, in hopes of achieving better living conditions.

But the more I started reading into it, more I became disappointed.... You could say that the reason why this all started is because Yanukovich turned down the EU association deal... At the time I thought this is because his warlords in Russia told him that he cant.

But as I took closer look at the EU deal and what effects it would have on Ukraine, in few short words... It would completely destroy Ukraine`s industry... All their factories are non EU compliant, money needed to modernize such factories are just at silly numbers....

Especially when manufacturers such as Antonov-aircrafts keep afloat only because Russia orders them.... With EU association, Russia will no longer buy those airplanes due to increased price and also for political reasons.

So you might say well Antonov will be given a loan to modernize themselves and all will be dandy, but in reality there is no way that they will ever be able to compete with Airbus in France, it is just impossible. They simply will not be able to pay the loan back which they took out for modernization.



ild new nuclear stations which are EU compliant or make them all green with turbines and solar

So what we did, is shut down a working Nuclear station which employed thousands of local people and produced electricity at pennies due to the fact that it was left for FREE by Soviets... And now forcing them to build new one for 5 billion Euros, with no locals working there and since they cant afford such expense they will now take out massive loans and pay huge % on them.

Moreover, the new nuclear station will not even be competitive since the price per megawatt has gone up

This is pretty much the same scenario Ukraine will see from EU, across all of their industries.




I line, they only e and use the "they now have freeedom" expression

one your post is very long I gave up reading, two the money comes from the EU.

 

[bris]

But isn’t this more like the huskies have removed/retreat from there to bring the troops to dombass?

No it means the Ukranians fought them and beat them all the way back to their border.

They didn't tactically retreat, their tactics to encircle the Ukrainians failed, they lost again.

 

[Minstadave]

No it means the Ukranians fought them and beat them all the way back to their border.

They didn't tactically retreat, their tactics to encircle the Ukrainians failed, they lost again.

I winder if Ukraine should just carry on and start annexing Russian territory, would stop the Russians concentrating their forces inthe Dombass.

 

[Gibbo]

I winder if Ukraine should just carry on and start annexing Russian territory, would stop the Russians concentrating their forces inthe Dombass.

As tempting as that must be for Ukraine to get some payback, they need to play the better role and stop at the border, show they are the better nation/people and don't invade neighbouring countries, though they would have very good reason to do so, just stop at the border and fortify defences.

With Finland and Sweden looking to join NATO potentially soon, Russia does not need any excuses for further aggression upon Ukraine or other countries.

Europe/USA needs to work on giving Putin an exit strategy rather than trying to antagonise things more otherwise there really will become the risk of the war spreading or even WW3, the best solution is to look for an exit option that appeases Russia and then Europe/USA come to an agreement with Russia to try and keep them happy and then pile money into Ukraine to rebuild and if Russia were smart they were apologise and also assist with rebuilt effort on the basis some Russian sanctions are lifted as the Russian people should also not be punished as I am sure the general population would rather things returned to as they were, the longer it goes on for the more isolated Russia will become.

 

[Uhtred]

I winder if Ukraine should just carry on and start annexing Russian territory, would stop the Russians concentrating their forces inthe Dombass.

Performing procession strikes is one thing but taking territory and subjugating the local population would mean Ukraine loses the moral high ground and could mean less support from neutral countries.

 

[Grim5]

Russia has officially seized the Moscow production facility and other assets of car maker Renault. All Renaults's Russian assets have been transferred to Moscow local government ownership and control

Usine de Moscou (Renault) | Renault Group

« Renaulution » Renault Group's recently unveiled strategy is an ambitious transformative program, moving from volumes to value.Welcome on board our #Renaulu...

m.youtube.com

 

[Shamikebab]

The question is, what happens if Ukraine push them out but the bombardments continue from outside their country?

 

[Gibbo]

Russia has officially seized the Moscow production facility and other assets of car maker Renault. All Renaults's Russian assets have been transferred to Moscow local government ownership and control

Usine de Moscou (Renault) | Renault Group

« Renaulution » Renault Group's recently unveiled strategy is an ambitious transformative program, moving from volumes to value.Welcome on board our #Renaulu...

m.youtube.com

Hardly a seized, it was an agreement by both parties for the best going forward and Renault have the option of buying back within a six year timeframe.

 

[Gibbo]

The question is, what happens if Ukraine push them out but the bombardments continue from outside their country?

You have a no mans land essentially.