When are you going fully electric?

Soldato
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I was passing the Tesla charging station in Birmingham so thought I'd drop in and give it a try.

A few Tesla drivers came over intrigued / wondering what a non Tesla car was doing there. They all pretty much agreed that Tesla would lose car sales now, as this is the major selling point for Tesla owners.
I was getting a fairly good charge speed too : about 127 kWh at 44% SoC.


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Soldato
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Haha ace, seen your photo on the EV group. Few cars where it fits too.

Really they just need to lengthen like 2 of the cables at each site to have most situations covered.
The cable is super stiff and short - there is no chance of straightening it out or bending it much to fit.
 
Soldato
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Nice. At 61p/kWh you'd consider the alternative options once the novelty wears off though!

Exactly what I said on the last page, much like people without a subscription generally won't use Ionity unless there is no other choice, or its a one off type affair. Especially if they can't make use of the super-duper-mega fast charging rates. I used Ionity just for fun on the Ioniq, but that was when Maingau was a thing and it was 25ppkWh.
 
Soldato
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And I'm still tempted but will have to get this French road trip out of the way before I can decide what to do about transitioning away from ICE ownership.
if you have to travel at holiday times too, there is potential queue for the autoroute charger, to integrate.

Can you see charger occupancy records from previous years - I suppose tesla must know if there is a queue if the car arrives at the charger location and, only later, starts charging.
 
Soldato
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Nice. At 61p/kWh you'd consider the alternative options once the novelty wears off though!
Yep - Ionity is just 30p for Polestar owners and the one at Beaconsfield M40 Services is perfectly located for trips into London.
 
Soldato
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I've only been driving an EV (E-Tron 50) for about 20 months but in that period I have come to understand the actual important metrics of EV ownership.

Peak charging speed means nothing if it lasts for 5 minutes and coldgates substantially in winter.
How far will you get at 100% SoC in different driving conditions and trip types.
How long does it take to add 50, 100, 150 or even 200 miles at various rapid chargers in different seasons.
You only need to add what charge you need to finish your trip.

None of the above matters if you charge at home and 99% of your trips are short school runs and or commutes. I will not instantly dismiss an EV because it means I have to hang around a charging station for an extra 30 minutes once or twice a year.

I agree to a point but as someone that owns an EV I’m sure you’ll understand that you want to know how the car performs when it’s hooked up to a rapid charger, no matter how rare it may be that you use one. Likewise how far it will actually go on a charge before you either bottle it or it runs out on various types of terrain/weather. That comes from experience and not reading reviews or watching YouTube videos.

I merely used 100miles as an example of my car which is ‘slower’ to charge on paper but very fast in reality, especially in summer where I’ve seen close to 5 miles/kWh in real world driving.
 
Soldato
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Haha ace, seen your photo on the EV group. Few cars where it fits too.

Really they just need to lengthen like 2 of the cables at each site to have most situations covered.
Is this about non-Teslas having to park in awkward positions and blocking out 2 chargers if their charge ports aren't in the same place as Tesla standard?

if you have to travel at holiday times too, there is potential queue for the autoroute charger, to integrate.

Can you see charger occupancy records from previous years - I suppose tesla must know if there is a queue if the car arrives at the charger location and, only later, starts charging.
I was at Oxford services a month ago and the main car park was clogged solid because of the fuel queue blocking everyone in. Not just an EV thing
 
Associate
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Something like this: https://used.jaguar.co.uk/jaguar-39b1abcd4b7dc9ad9c1fd79b1a4e73108877cefc?vehicle=164224&category=12

Retail is £4k over the WBAC valuation but there's a £3.8k deposit allowance (obviously settle the finance, don't want to be paying 10% APR) so it's close to trade price. I'd bet you can get a few grand off as well since it's been listed since Jan
You must have inspired someone as its now reserved :) .

Been reading up on the ipace, the one you listed I THINK has the pivo pro. struggling to get my head around when they changed from the touch pro.

Don't seem to many issues with the ipace apart from some AC/HVAC issues
 
Soldato
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You must have inspired someone as its now reserved :) .

Been reading up on the ipace, the one you listed I THINK has the pivo pro. struggling to get my head around when they changed from the touch pro.

Don't seem to many issues with the ipace apart from some AC/HVAC issues
You can search by model year on the Jag site. MY2021 onwards has the newer infotainment system :)

Doesn't appear as reserved when I click the link but anyway there's about 10 of them in standard HSE spec in a very similar price range. Looks like an ex-Demo clearout.
 
Soldato
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They just need a better spec cable, but then Tesla at 250kW is technically exceeding the 500A limit the CCS charge inlet is designed for, good job its only a short period.

Is the CCS cable not intentionally lower spec? I'm sure I read somewhere that the cable required to carry the current without overheating would be so thick that it would make handling difficult so instead they opted for a lower cross section conductor and have liquid cooling inside the cable to keep it in temperature range.
 
Soldato
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I agree to a point but as someone that owns an EV I’m sure you’ll understand that you want to know how the car performs when it’s hooked up to a rapid charger, no matter how rare it may be that you use one. Likewise how far it will actually go on a charge before you either bottle it or it runs out on various types of terrain/weather. That comes from experience and not reading reviews or watching YouTube videos.

I merely used 100miles as an example of my car which is ‘slower’ to charge on paper but very fast in reality, especially in summer where I’ve seen close to 5 miles/kWh in real world driving.

I think you miss my point slightly. I know exactly how an I-Pace and most other EVs are likely to compare when hooked up to a rapid. I know expected winter/summer range, charging speeds, efficiency and how charging rate behaves at different SoC. I did the exact same research before leasing the E-Tron 50 and my calculations/expectations were 100% spot on without owning one at the time. So I disagree that you need to experience an EV before kowing how it will perform and or charge. It's called research and I don't mean by watching the utter drivel that is Carwow for example.

So after all this research I know an I-Pace will take ~20 - 30 minutes longer than an EV6, or a Model Y to add 150 miles of range if you are lucky to find a very rare 350kW rapid. Or that when you are at a slower sub 250kW rapid those gaps get even smaller. I just don't care because for me that difference is not enough to factor into my final purchasing choice.
 
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Associate
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I think Tesla owners would have less issue with the ‘trial’ if the chargers were actually designed to be used by cars with charge ports in locations other than the rear near side corner. Most cars just don’t have their charge port in that location.

The issue is that when most non-Tesla’s turn up the a supercharger, they use one plug and block another because they have no choice to use the station. On some layouts, some cars have to park sideways on, potentially blocking 3.

You combine that with the ‘urinal rule’ for the older V2 chargers to avoid power, you could turn up to a charger with seemingly lots of capacity and not actually be able to get on it.

They need to have a proper rethink of their stall design going forward but the ludicrous thing is that they are continuing to install sites using the standard design while knowingly opening it up to non Tesla’s.

It just makes no sense unless the plan is for them to be ‘open’ but make it suck a pain in the backside to use for non Tesla’s so non of them actually use it.

This is the only issue I have with Tesla opening up the network. They really need the charging stall to aligned to the middle of the space rather than on the right hand side, with a longer cable. That would allow support for any charging socket location whilst parking in the correct space (some cars would have to reverse in and some park nose in).

I'm totally not going to complain if a supercharger location shows as full on the navigation because it really is full (just wait 5 mins and someone will finish). What will suck is the navigation saying there's stalls free but someone's had to park blocking two but only using one.
 
Associate
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Its not only Tesla charger that have cables that are "too short". If I can't park our Model 3 in the right hand bay of any of the Chargeplace Scotland chargers then I cannot use the CCS. I've used a Supercharger once since we got our Model 3 (In September last year) just because we were away for a weeks holiday so I have absolutely zero objections to them opening up the network.
 
Soldato
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Well, went and drove a Model Y, an I Pace and an e-tron over the weekend. Compared to the Zoe we used to have and the e208 we have right now, there's a large range of EVs out there now!

MY - It's the best EV there, for range and ability to charge up. Also really spacious but horrendous ride and they really need to sort the suspension out, I'd give up quite a lot of range for a comfier ride.
I Pace - Felt punchy to drive, interior is actually pretty nice, boot a little bit smaller than the others. Had passive suspension and it was miles better than the Y but could still tell it's 2 tonnes of car that is hitting cracks and holes in the road.
e-tron - The least 'EV' like car of the three but surprisingly I liked it the most. It had air suspension which really made a difference and throttle has definitely been calibrated not to shoot the car off the line like a scalded cat (the other two I found you had to be really gentle to avoid a sort of whiplash effect when getting going) but made it a more relaxing drive while still not being slow. It's also the most expensive and the range is the worst, although it dumps charge in at 150kW if you find the right chargers.

All in all I only got the 630d in Jan so probably too soon and tbh doesn't make much financial sense to change right now so it's mainly curiosity and I'll probably end up with none of the three :p
 
Soldato
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Well, went and drove a Model Y, an I Pace and an e-tron over the weekend. Compared to the Zoe we used to have and the e208 we have right now, there's a large range of EVs out there now!

MY - It's the best EV there, for range and ability to charge up. Also really spacious but horrendous ride and they really need to sort the suspension out, I'd give up quite a lot of range for a comfier ride.
I Pace - Felt punchy to drive, interior is actually pretty nice, boot a little bit smaller than the others. Had passive suspension and it was miles better than the Y but could still tell it's 2 tonnes of car that is hitting cracks and holes in the road.
e-tron - The least 'EV' like car of the three but surprisingly I liked it the most. It had air suspension which really made a difference and throttle has definitely been calibrated not to shoot the car off the line like a scalded cat (the other two I found you had to be really gentle to avoid a sort of whiplash effect when getting going) but made it a more relaxing drive while still not being slow. It's also the most expensive and the range is the worst, although it dumps charge in at 150kW if you find the right chargers.

All in all I only got the 630d in Jan so probably too soon and tbh doesn't make much financial sense to change right now so it's mainly curiosity and I'll probably end up with none of the three :p

Be wary of the extremists from the cult of EV, where the only thing that matters is range, efficiency and tech. They confuse great EV to mean great car where comfort, build quality and style don't matter. Thankfully as more people change to EVs the more the cult will become diluted with normal people like us. People who value what really matters in a car and who roll their eyes out loud when someone starts boasting about getting 4 mi/kWh on a recent trip on a motorway.

So if you pick an E-tron as an EV be ready to hear people tell you how crap it is and how you should have bought a Tesla. The cultists can't get their head around the fact that some people don't care if a car has 30-40 miles more range, takes an extra 20 minutes at a rapid charger, or takes an extra £10 per month in electric costs.
 
Soldato
Joined
14 Dec 2003
Posts
5,297
Be wary of the extremists from the cult of EV, where the only thing that matters is range, efficiency and tech. They confuse great EV to mean great car where comfort, build quality and style don't matter. Thankfully as more people change to EVs the more the cult will become diluted with normal people like us. People who value what really matters in a car and who roll their eyes out loud when someone starts boasting about getting 4 mi/kWh on a recent trip on a motorway.

So if you pick an E-tron as an EV be ready to hear people tell you how crap it is and how you should have bought a Tesla. The cultists can't get their head around the fact that some people don't care if a car has 30-40 miles more range, takes an extra 20 minutes at a rapid charger, or takes an extra £10 per month in electric costs.
Having read up on how many 50-150kW+ chargers are going to start appearing around the country in the next 12-18 months my views on the importance of range are changing quite fast. Gridserve, Instavolt, Shell, BP, MFG all committing to close to 5,000 rapid chargers each over the next few years. Just like ICE cars some are more efficient than others but as long as you can top up reliably it will become a non-issue. The efficiency thing was valid when all you had was 2 crappy Ecotricity chargers at each services and couldn't be sure if they would be working or not, but it's evolving fast in the right direction.
 
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